Raising Boys

[Sexnotgender]

I’m staunchly gender critical and spend a lot of time lurking on here, not contributed a huge amount as I’m just generally overawed by the arguments presented and don’t feel I’d add much value.

However I gave birth to a beautiful little boy nearly 4 weeks ago and I’m interested in how I can raise him to be empathetic and kind and without male privilege in such a blatantly patriarchal society.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

I'd also say that I'm happy to let them grow their hair too, but in reality head lice and thread worms make that a pipe dream.

Yeah, you wouldn't stop daughters having long hair for this reason.
DS has had long hair from aged 6 to 12, but he had it cut once.
Both DD and DS we have treat the same. Ask them "do you want a hair cut?" every few months, and if they say no, it doesn't happen.
(DS has got used to people thinking he's a girl because of his long hair - which happens a lot! But I can see how boys are shamed into having short hair).

ou do not have the power to raise a son who is not sexist. If mothers had this power, sexism would have been over a long time ago

I disagree. Gender stereotypes are perpetuated by women as much as men.

I have seen so many women completely buy into the pink brain/blue brain crap. They do bondy girly stuff with dd’s and send the boys of to the park with dad to burn energy.

My mil, babysitting sil’s kids, would let the boys eat crap and play video games all day, while the girls “enjoyed” being given their own duster and pretending to help with the housework. Sil was fine with this.

How many threads on here where women have a gender preference- usually a girl because they won’t have anything in common with a boy.

My own mother thought I was terribly neglectful going back to work after dc. In her opinion all mothers should sah until the children go to school, when they get a little pin money job so they can be home to put dinner on the table.

I have gender non conforming kids. The shit they got as children for wearing a dress and having a short haircut at the same time. One woman called me abusive for not “allowing” my child to grow her hair (it was her choice). Others would laugh at me for allowing a 5 year old to go out “in his sisters clothes”. Or correct me when i refer to my child as “she”.

Funnily enough it was always men that reacted positively. They would ask if she was a boy or a girl, and usually compliment her look. It was a man that scouted her for modelling. Women and children just insisted I was wrong about her sex.

I disagree. Gender stereotypes are perpetuated by women as much as men.

Certainly they are, but the fact is that men listen to other men and boys listen to other boys, more than they listen to their mothers. OK, I take your point that most mothers are not even trying that hard to raise children with a feminist consciousness (although most mothers are actively trying to avoid raising rapists and domestic abusers and these still seem remarkably common) but the children of feminists actually surprisingly often turn out to be full on anti-feminists.

It's just a lie that we can change the world through the influence we have on our children.

You yourself have very different values to your mother, so that should tell you something.

I don't know because I have girls.

But I worry so much about the influence of porn. If you can do anything I think you should bust a gut to keep him from seeing porn whilst instilling an understanding of why it is harmful and hopefully as he becomes old enough to have independence and the freedom of the internet he won't want to go there.

I know it can be done. DD1, 21, in first major relationship, listing reasons why he is "the one" tells me he doesn't approve of porn as it is degrading to women. (He's also 21, quite a woke family I suspect in other ways eg they don't do Christmas, they give to charity instead).

But I'm really worried about DD2 who has yet to have a boyfriend and is quite innocent. When I read some of the hair raising threads on here I want to lock her in a nunnery.

I have two DSs and I find I have to work really really hard to explicitly tell them things. Somehow just having role models around them doesn't seem to be enough!? True convo in the car last week:

DS2 "Can girls be doctors?"
DS1 "no they have to be nurses"
Me "actually, let's think about this, the doctor you saw the other day was what?"
"A girl"
"And the nurse who helped you in the hospital was..."
"A boy"
"And auntie X is a consultant, and friend Y is a surgeon, and so and so's mum is a GP and all the GPs in our surgery except one are girls...all doctors who happen to be women...and G's husband is a nurse, and the nurse who helped mummy when she had you was a boy too...so you tell me, can girls be doctors and can boys be nurses?"
"Yeah ok"

But just seeing ALL the women around them as doctors and consultants wasn't enough to counteract the message that they absorbed from school/media/society etc that "boys are doctors and girls are nurses". I find I have to be explicit and actually actively re-educate my sons it's helped a lot moving them into a single sex environment as everything around them is by definition for boys, even things previously dismissed as girly.

But I worry so much about the influence of porn. If you can do anything I think you should bust a gut to keep him from seeing porn whilst instilling an understanding of why it is harmful and hopefully as he becomes old enough to have independence and the freedom of the internet he won't want to go there.

Oh dear god yes, I am dreading when DS is old enough to start hearing about porn. I am not looking forward to that chat.But we will be having it.

Also Congratulations by the way!
Hope you are both well and happy.
There are lots of sweet boys out there.

It's just a lie that we can change the world through the influence we have on our children.

How depressing if true.
I'm sure it isn't.
Or why do we even bother, we could just hit the gin and put our feet up and let our children raise themselves.
Of course mums have an influence - for good and bad sometimes.

I have 2 DSes, 6 and 2 at the moment. DS1 told me the other day that there was no difference between boys and girls except for willies and vaginas

I think leading by example is very important. Model listening and kindness and encourage your son to think about things carefully and follow his interests. You'll probably be really careful about stereotyping according to sex etc. which is where problems start!

I've just asked DS who a particular children's sewing craft pack was for in a shop (packaging pink, what you make is very stereotypically girlish, I've been glaring at it for a few weeks) and interestingly he said 'big boys.' I think he saw it was relatively challenging. And then carried on gazing at the dinosaur Lego kit he'd just spent some hard saved pocket money on. We've done bits of easy sewing together since he was 4 so I felt pretty pleased he saw through the content and imaging He's actually pretty stereotypically 'boy' but I've always pushed the kindness, gentleness qualities etc and a few other bits here and there. He did prefer playing with the girls at nursery as they tended to play interesting role play games rather than running and roaring which he wasn't interested in (despite being extremely energetic), the one other boy who did this was a bit older and so left. Now he mostly plays running and roaring at school. 🙄

Paragraph fail, sorry!

Thank you everyone, some really interesting points raised!

And yes we’re both doing fine, loving my little bundle and soaking up the baby cuddles.

I'd forgotten to say what a gorgeous pic!

Bumping as I've just seen this article in the guardian.

It's a pretty accurate description of what I've discovered as a mum of now 2 boys. Just a decade behind so I watched the documentary she mentions when my first was quite little.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/mar/09/how-to-raise-good-feminist-boys-sons

All the above - so much brilliant advice - but don't worry about trying too hard! You know the outcome you're aiming for so trust your instincts and you and your partner will lead by example.

Yes society is out there and will have an influence but you'll recognise it as it happens and you'll address each situation as it arises. Most of it will come naturally. Just as your instincts can be relied on to teach your child how to keep safe when crossing a busy road, they will also kick in when there's a danger of being brainwashed by the patriarchy!

I'm big on raising children without resorting to shaming them. One thing I did with my son was to teach him to identify his values and to recognise when he wasn't living according to them. This encourages self guidance in kids and is a great skill to equip them with for spotting sexist bullsh*t in the classroom or on the playground.

Allow your children to express themselves fully and celebrate it all. It will give them a great grounding in their self worth and at some point reveal their natural sensitivity to others (society rewards this trait in girls but often ignores it in boys).

My son is nearly 19 now and is a good man. I love how his partner stopped shaving her body soon after meeting him because he reassured her that he wasn't into that female oppressive nonsense. Yay!

Congratulations! You'll do brilliantly 💐

I like your original question and just the fact that you are asking it shows that you'll be careful on stereotyping anyway. I have two boys, 9 & 11. Some tips would be (given we are halfway through raising them!) :

• don't be stereotypes yourselves, so don't leave all the DIY to your partner, go out to work and sometimes show that you put your work ahead of them "I can play with you in 10 mins when I've emailed someone for my work" etc. If your partner does that, then do it too and show that you do important things outside the home too.
• similarly don't allow your partner to be a stereotype, that he cooks for you, organises the washing too.
• Don't be their maid. I tell my boys that I am their mother, I'm not the cook, cleaner, maid etc. Once they can do something, then that is expected of them. My eldest has started to cook sometimes, a simple meal but it's a start. I want their future partners to look me in the eye and thank me that they left home competent and independent!
• talk about stereotypes and how stupid gender roles are.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/mar/09/how-to-raise-good-feminist-boys-sons

Good article from the Guardian. I'd be interested what age she talked about different issues like Brett Kavanaugh, rape, porn etc. Timing is everything with those kinds of conversations. I told my 11 year old about periods the other day. I gave him quite a bit of information so that it was a complete chunk of info and we wouldn't have to speak about it much more, as there won't need to be. I've also talked about consent for hugs and kisses before, crucial to get it into their heads from an early age that they get to say what physical contact they get and don't want, similarly with their friends too.