Civil Service Trans policy - what can I do?

[DoxxMeTwice]

Following an awful "workplace inclusion" meeting today I was prompted to check out my work policy for Trans (link below).

I work for the Civil Service ( name changed, as I was previously doxed and can't risk it here).

Page 31 is particularly bad, I feel like it implies that any woman who objects to sharing single sex facilities will be disciplined for being discriminatory.

This policy is clearly being put into practice as during my meeting today it was discussed that a Trans Woman was left hurt and embarrassed recently after a woman did an immediate u-turn out of the toilets when she saw them. It was stated as a gentle warning to others to consider trans feelings.

The woman's feelings were not considered at all, though I expect she has probably since been vilified in her local office!

Does anyone have any real life examples of policies like this being successfully challenged by using EHRC/Equalities act??

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/503663/WorkplaceeGuideCSEPPrevisedFinallV1.pdf

The Equality Act (2010) identifies 9 protected characteristics.
They are

age
disability
gender reassignment
marriage & civil partnership
pregnancy & maternity
religion or belief
race
sex
sexual orientation
These protected characteristics exist to ensure that everyone is treated equally and fairly and to guard against discrimination.

The policies are breaching/compromising the rights of some women in more than the sex characteristic.

OP I don't think you could be accused of discrimination if you raised your concerns privately with HR, although I can understand why you may not wish to. If you made comments publicly or to a trans colleague then yes that could be seen as discriminatory. Not saying that's right, and I share your concern. An anonymous complaint to HR via a union might be the best approach? Or if you have a contact in a women's network who shares your views perhaps via them?

Trousering has the best solution, whistleblowing procedure. Ignore what I said.

Have you gone to your union? (Sorry, this may have been discussed).

The woman who was frightened in the toilets (the biological, actual woman) should do so if she hasn’t.

Does Woman’s place etc issue any guidance about employment rights and the law as applying in respect of single sex toilet facilities? It would be useful to have it all in one place & vetted by a lawyer with appropriate specialised knowledge.

If you do complain to HR, so long as your complaint is that you believe you are being discriminated against on grounds of sex, ie on the basis you are being asked to share toilets with a man, and that this is difficult for you because you are a woman, then any victimisation of you in consequence would legally be just that, victimisation. Penalising someone for making a claim of discrimination is itself a form of discrimination, regardless of the merits of the underlying original claim.

Does anyone know what ACAS’s take is on trans issues?

This was the gender fluid police officer with two ID cards

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/fluid-gender-policeman/

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2064

If you scroll down in the link below to Stonewall's "Senior Champion of the Year" there are details of an individual who is lauded for an excessive interest in removing women's rights to sex segregated spaces in the work place (mainly toilets in the Department for Education) and who has been engaging with Civil Service Employee Policy (CSEP) to create LGBT+ inclusive guidance for use across the entire civil service

One Jonathan Slater - very senior in the DfE

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/top_100_employers_2019.pdf

SingingLily it's the same in the police. You can be forcibly searched by a male bodied person who identifies as female. Including strip search.

This is really creepy.
The idea that you might be in trouble for simply leaving the toilets is horrible.
This kind of thing will keep women out of the workplace.

Is there any reason we can’t start our own union? A gender critical one that represents natal women across all industries?

I think fair play for women has a good document on their website, detailing where women’s rights overrule trans rights.

happy to contribute to crowd fund for legal support on this if needed

Also me.

I don't think there's any point messing about at a low level with HR or unions on this one. The civil service is a massive employer. The only way to get directly to the top is to whistleblow.

Doesn't have to be complicated, but must pre emp any fobbing off with lies about the Equality act; saying TWAW when this is quite demonstrably a belief which is counter to the majority belief in this country and that they are an inclusive employer. Non of those answers permit legal discrimination against women. All of that lying and fobbing off is in the policy which is being used to harass and discriminate against non believers.

It's not just women who are having their beliefs ignored is it. Men are also being harassed into standing by and watching other men discrimate against their female colleagues. Men are being contractually gagged and intimidated into permitting and condoning sexual assault.

Blow the bloody doors off.

On a lighter note ... As long as these trans women keep the toilets clean and not smelly and dirty like men's toilets, I can deal with this ... But I know this isn't the objection.

@Hayden555 I worked in a big office where a guy on the same floor transitioned 25 years ago. Different team on different side of the building so only really knew by sight.

Nobody was really bothered - all very live and let live. Apart from when it came to the loos - there was a sudden and marked change when they started using them, ditto the kitchen they never troubled themselves with tidying it up as they went as all women had previously. Their most heinous though was to flout the dress code and look like they were just off to a nightclub in miniskirts and sequinned tips rather than the suits/smart stuff worn by everyone else. The women had only just won the (long requested) right to wear smart trousers whereas they were pushing for every woman to have to wear short skirt suits and remove the right to wear trousers despite the fact that it was optional and much wanted by everyone else.

The trousers remained - as did the stench in the loos!

I'm absolutely boiling with rage on the OP's behalf.

That policy needs sending to a suitable journalist (Gilligan?, The Mail?) and very widely exposed. That sort of policy will be in every workplace in a flash.

Can't we start a petition with the aim of getting 100,000 signatures so it has to be debated in Parliament?

How do we get this aired? It should peak trans any women not already there yet!

It's interesting trying to read the outlined definitions and then trying to lie them against the guidance for toilets, which initially says transsexuals but then seems to say but actually there may not be medical intervention? I think it's trying to refer to the two years living in the opposite sex role?

I also note what they include under transgender compared to transsexual. And some bilge about brains being sexed in terms of translating to gender expression.

I don't have time to do a longer post but I feel the woman delivering this has made it even woolier than it was already.

Dear me, I didn't pick up the the bit about braina being sexed. Again this is a belief, it's untrue and we can't be harassed or discriminated for not sharing that belief.

Under transgender (there's a separate paragraph on transsexual):

(Umbrella term) It is often the preferred term for those who change their role permanently, as well as others who, for example, cross-dress intermittently for a variety of reasons including erotic factors (also referred to as transvestism). Those who live continuously outside gender norms, sometimes with, and sometimes without, medical intervention are covered by this term.
There is a great deal of difference between say, drag artists and people who change their role permanently.

Toilet para uses term transsexual. But then is a bit confusing imo.

They are including men who change roles for erotics factors in the group of people they are giving permission to use facilities of their choice quite explicitly here aren't they? So condoning the erotic and sexualised behaviour at work. Definitely a a conflict with a sexual harassment policy.

Well, there needs to be clarity. I'm querying the scenarios given in the training. And the feeling given that you cannot ask any questions at all.

This is awful, the civil service is supposed to be good employer for women. And like several other women on this board, at my workplace our women’s toilets are shared with an AGP trans woman so I know how degrading, scary and upsetting it is to have it OK’d at top level that women just have to suck this up. But this is also next level- not only the women in offices expected to get on board but vulnerable women in the legal custody of civil servants. Is that what it’s saying??

it is so awful to think women in all of civil service and service users could be forced into this. How many staff are in the civil service? It’s a huge UK employer.

How can we expect the civil service to listen to the needs of women as the objects of policy it makes or the services it provides when it treats its own staff like this? Why hasn’t it consulted with service users about this? It looks like it’s only for internal civil service consultation. What does that process look like?

Also, other UK employers look to the civil service as offering the gold standard for employment rights. Like with civil service pensions. This feels like it’s massively accelerating a race to the bottom for women’s rights in the workplace.