Civil Service Trans policy - what can I do?

[DoxxMeTwice]

Following an awful "workplace inclusion" meeting today I was prompted to check out my work policy for Trans (link below).

I work for the Civil Service ( name changed, as I was previously doxed and can't risk it here).

Page 31 is particularly bad, I feel like it implies that any woman who objects to sharing single sex facilities will be disciplined for being discriminatory.

This policy is clearly being put into practice as during my meeting today it was discussed that a Trans Woman was left hurt and embarrassed recently after a woman did an immediate u-turn out of the toilets when she saw them. It was stated as a gentle warning to others to consider trans feelings.

The woman's feelings were not considered at all, though I expect she has probably since been vilified in her local office!

Does anyone have any real life examples of policies like this being successfully challenged by using EHRC/Equalities act??

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/503663/WorkplaceeGuideCSEPPrevisedFinallV1.pdf

The idea that silently leaving a toilet when seeing a man there, is not acceptable behaviour, is terrifying.

Aside from anything else, my instinctive reaction if I saw a man in the loos would be to assume I had walked into the wrong one, and do a speedy U-turn! It is not the job of women to validate mens feelings.

The idea that women must ignore, disguise their discomfort for the sake of mens feelings is nothing new.

It's the reason most women are very careful about how they handle men giving them unwanted attention in public. We are not supposed to be "rude" even to men who are interrupting / bothering us. To spare their feelings. There's also the underlying threat of an aggressive response if we do not handle men we interact with, in certain situations, very carefully. We learn this from when we're young.

The idea that a woman or girl MUST NOT show her discomfort if she walks into an empty toilet and what she perceives as a man is in there, and she must not leave, is really scary.

This reinforces the messages that we get that make it so hard to act when as girls eg some weirdo decides to talk to us on the bus and even getting up and moving sometimes feels impossible due to our socialisation.

I spend so much time telling my girls that if anything feels off just leave, don't worry about beign "polite" or upsetting anyone.

This message is the exact reverse of this.

It is ALL about erasure of female boundaries and putting men first.

It's scandalous really. I'm going to scare the pants off the men next week when I tell them how far we will go on this and how many women are fully aware of the discrimination and harassment that is negligently being introduced.

I spend so much time telling my girls that if anything feels off just leave, don't worry about beign "polite" or upsetting anyone.

This message is the exact reverse of this.

It's awful, girls (and women) need to know that it's ok to feel safe, to not prioritise politeness over it.

Why would anyone ever comment on a woman changing their mind about using the toilet? And for anyone in the civil service to use it as a 'teaching' moment is quite incredible. It's an example of coercive control with an overdose of sexual intimidation of women. A real 'know your place'

So what if you feel the need, for example, to discharge a particularly smelly fart (oh come on we all do it). You think ‘I’m going to nip into the ladies and if there’s no one in there, let nature take its course’. But there’s a man in there! Your eyes meet in terror. He raises an eyebrow in a defiant and provocative gesture of ‘what are you gonna do?!’

What are you going to do?

Honestly Fekko ?

Not use the toilets at work. Ever. Because of the risk of that happening.

We already have issues in schools where teenaged girls won't use loos they have to share with males, and it's causing issues around them not drinking enough so they don't need to go, and holding it for hours which is not good for them. This will quietly make public toilets somewhere that women no longer go.

I’d let rip (loudly) then turn heels saying ‘that’s better’. It may give them the impression that’s this is what us women use the loos for (and consider going back to using the gents).

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

That’s hilarious. I don’t think that would be the female noises the AGPs would be banking on!

What can I say, it’s a talent😌

My big brother taught me how to belch and fart at will when I was about three (much to the horror of mymcery proper mum).

Just wondering if anyone has any further update around this guidance?

My meeting with the barrister is Thursday. I can't guarantee getting chapter and verse but I'm am planning to present this as a problem that has been raised to me by an extremely large number of women in multiple sectors and we are considering a group action against all organisations supporting known sexually motivated cross dressing males in using female facilities as per the civil service policy. I am going to say that we consider this to be sexual harassment at work and will be acting on this.

It's going to be interesting. I might just have to leave that thought with the barrister.

I think it may be worth paying for a written opinion.

Excellent Trousering- fantastic that you are doing this. What level of £££ are we talking for the written opinion?

Should we be taking this into the Penny Mordaunt web chat?

Seems rude not to really

Not sure on cost. It's not a case so it's not going to be 10s of thousands, it's an opinion.

Watching with interest Trousering

Would it be more likely to succeed along the line of 'some men are sexual predators and those that are don't wear a badge...criminality doesn't change on transition...that will never happen except it does...Karen White..we need to learn from me too'

Rather than 'some cross-dressing males are sexually motivated' which leaves the objection open to cries of bigotry and transphobia?

The civil service document does specify cross dressing for erotic purposes.

QCs don't generally call their paying clients bigots.

They work on the legal analysis presented to them. His opinion of me is of no interest. His opinion on the discrimination and harassment is.

Sorry, I typed before fully understanding and missed the point.

Very interested to learn how it goes. Thank you.

I am going to say that we consider this to be sexual harassment at work and will be acting on this.

Brilliant, Trousering!

Avoiding sexual harassment and abuse at work is a legitimate aim. They no doubt have a policy that states that. They are now stating that men who are dressing and using sex segregated facilities for erotic reasons can do that. And they will permit the use of disciplinary procedures to override consent.

It's an obscene misuse/misrepresentation of Equality legislation.

I'm beginning to wonder how many closet AGPs at the very highest level in the CS and elsewhere are pushing these directives through.

Might be worth a question on the Penny Mordaunt thread?

I'm beginning to wonder how many closet AGPs at the very highest level in the CS and elsewhere are pushing these directives through.

Perhaps the influence goes all the way back to the early days of The Beaumont Society & its members?