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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Help a brother out

701 replies

Glinner · 26/02/2019 15:06

Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

OP posts:
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17
littlbrowndog · 01/03/2019 23:21

Shite older mum

They just fucking idiots.

Fucking idiots

Datun · 01/03/2019 23:30

They just fucking idiots.
Fucking idiots

They really are. But the really appalling tossers are those who invented the law to casually legitimise predators, violent men, and fetishists in the first place.

Predators are gonna predate. But being responsible for the relevant law change where you don't even get that?

Unforgivable.

BettyFloop · 01/03/2019 23:47

Predators are gonna predate. But being responsible for the relevant law change where you don't even get that?

Unforgivable.

Yep. Either never been prey or just....sympathetic to predators (I had to self moderate there - my original point was a bit....accusatory...)

littlebillie · 02/03/2019 08:09

I think it is the vulnerability of children, my role models was tomboy Georgina ( from the famous five - showing my age) and my brothers. I wanted to be a LIKE a boy to play with their toys.

Fortunately my parents let me BE and I fully identify as a woman ( I have hand bags and everything) but I can wield a few tools and even a drive a car.

The innocence of childhood has been compromised, we are stopping creativity and identity exploration of the current generation . Children aren't sexual beings they should be able to pretend and understand the world on their own terms.

Thanks Glinner

hoodathunkit · 02/03/2019 10:51

Just wanted to share some further thoughts on this

In the 1980s I was very involved in campaigning for the rights of lesbians and gay men and was acutely aware that sinister forces were attempting to appropriate narratives regarding sexual minorities and to pervert them into something evil.

I am specifically referring to the notorious Paedophile Information Exchange, which, as many of the older posters here will know, attempted to equate homosexuality with a sexual interest in children.

The narratives promoted by the PIE were encapsulated in a book called The Betrayal of Youth.

I have read some chapters of this book and not the book in its entirety, however the narrative promoted by the authors of the various chapters that I have read was one in which they claim that society is betraying and letting down children by not allowing them to express their sexual desires towards adults.

The book promotes the idea that children are oppressed by legislation that is there to protect them from the predatory advances of adults.

As someone who can remember my own childhood very well it is my impression that it is common for children to seek affection and cuddles from adults, especially when neglected and abused. It is also not uncommon for children to have crushes on adults.

It is my belief that children should be protected from predatory adults and that sexual relationships between children en and adults are always abusive and hurtful to the child.

Children may think that they want a grown up, romantic relationship with an adult, but if the adult engages in sexual activity with a child, the child is then left dealing not only with the complex, traumatic feelings associated with being sexually abused but also with a sense of guilt and complicity because of their initial romantic desires towards an adult who they loved.

It seems to me that that the rationale for treating children for gender dysmorphia bears many similarities with the narratives promoted by the PIE.

Both narratives depict children and young teenagers as having the maturity to consent to potentially damaging and violating interventions, whether sexual, as in the case of the PIE, or surgical, as in the case of the GIDS service.

I believe that it is important to listen to children's views and opinions, however children are children and should be protected from abuse whether by adults with a sexual interest in children, by clinical services conducting unethical experiments upon them, or by actors monetising children as social influences on youtube and other platforms.

hoodathunkit · 02/03/2019 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hoodathunkit · 02/03/2019 11:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoloClarinet · 02/03/2019 21:11

Naively I thought that equality was just around the corner. Then my desperately confused, lovely, anxious, autistic, gender non-conforming daughter told me she was actually a man. In my confusion, happened upon the wonderful women in Mumsnet FWR boards who articulated what my brain and heart were screaming - that trans ideology is regressive, sexist, homophobic and preys on vulnerable young people.

FlyingOink · 03/03/2019 03:02

Children aren't sexual beings they should be able to pretend and understand the world on their own terms.
Absolutely

children are children and should be protected from abuse whether by adults with a sexual interest in children, by clinical services conducting unethical experiments upon them
Again agreed 100%
You only get one chance at childhood and there are so many ways in which it can be cut short when child gets forced into adult roles. From child sex abuse to child labour to sexualisation of children to children forced into caring roles to child brides etc. Too many threats to list, sadly.

This is just an additional threat. The fact that TRAs are open about the main driver for childhood transition (specifically chemical and surgical) being a better aesthetic outcome is terrifying. Who is the aesthetic outcome FOR?
Is it to have saleable young bodies to validate middle aged fetishists? Is it to have immature psyches and isolated damaged young people to abuse? Does the child actually benefit? It's hard to believe Jazz Jennings has benefited from all that chemical and surgical abuse - no sex drive, lengthy and unsuccessful surgery, a missed adolescence, possible effects on intellectual development, bone density. All for a more believable aesthetic outcome.

GCDawson · 04/03/2019 12:41

Hallo, I have been lurking for a while and decided to jump in.

I peak transed today. I thought I'd peak transed long ago, but nope, there was another peak ahead of me.

Apparently there's a "non binary trans author" under consideration for the Women's Prize for Fiction and the organisers are saying "it's a historic moment" and that the nomination should not be "hijacked by gender politics axe grinders".

The "non binary trans author" is a woman. FFS.

Yes, there's a kerfuffle about a WOMAN being on a WOMAN'S shortlist, because she says she's not really a woman. Though she clearly is.

OldCrone · 04/03/2019 12:54

Thread here about the non-binary trans author.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3523653-Woman-wins-womens-prize

Datun · 04/03/2019 12:57

As someone else said, she should reject the prize out of hand. How dare they misgender her.

Vixxxy · 04/03/2019 13:23

'non binary trans' makes no sense at all to me.

Also its the first time ever someone who is not a walking stereotype has been considered? I find that hard to believe somehow Grin

Yspadadden · 06/03/2019 14:10

I just wandered into a conversation that sounded quite interesting, said what I thought, from my own life experience, and found myself being called a bigot and a nazi and goodness knows what - from then on, I was working on it in my local Labour Party basically to defend women from preposterous bullying and pressure. It was the unacceptable behaviour aspect rather than anything else - not by trans people especially, but from men who seemed to be strangely enthusiastic about an opportunity to shout down women without (in their eyes) sounding like bastards (they did).

Yspadadden · 06/03/2019 15:23

(um - I probably mean 'ears').

dontdoxmeeither · 08/03/2019 07:22

Can someone please post on that cyclists Twitter page (if not blocked!) that in response to his "no idea what to call this" I highly recommend-

"More shit that I pedal"

ihaveadaughter · 10/03/2019 16:04

I have always accepted trans individuals, and have a live and let live approach. A year or two ago one of my friends who works in CAMHs said to me "the rights of transgender people shouldn't be allowed to mess up the rights of women" and I was slightly confused about how there was any danger of this...

I am gender non-conforming, though superficially quite feminine-looking. I would have opted to transition myself probably if given the choice as a pre-teen. It was obvious that boys had the better deal! I am very glad I didn't - motherhood, with all its trials, is the best thing in my life and I am a happy adult woman.

And then recently it has all become clear: the crimes of MtF trans individuals are being counted as committed by "women" and BickerinBrattle makes an excellent point. I can't actually remember what first made the penny drop for me, but I wasn't surprised when the noisy, bullying contingent of trans rights activists went for Martina. How dare they! And then attacking Dame Kelly Holmes' livelihood by smearing her to @iamspecialised! I'm watching to see how the company follow-up on their first ill-advised response. Fulsome apology to their awesome brand ambassador tomorrow or a lot of lost business I think...

We need to hold the line for our hard-won women's rights. It would be heart-breaking for us to allow the victories of the previous generations to be reversed.

I have great respect and gratitude for the people (Glinner, Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, Paula Radcliffe, Kelly Holmes and the few male sportsmen: Daley Thomas, Matthew Pinsent, Chris Tomlinson) who have publicly led on this - too many of us are scared and not able to risk our livelihoods. Lauren Jeska's attempted murder of Ralph Knibbs brings their bravery into sharp focus. We should perhaps organise a mass declaration - they can't murder all of us!

ihaveadaughter · 10/03/2019 17:00

thanks Sam2112 for posting. Sounds like you have had a not very easy path in life - best of luck to you!

FermatsTheorem · 10/03/2019 17:39

Ihaveadaughter - thanks for bringing up Ralph Knibbs, Jeska's victim. He is an absolute superstar in my books - a promising up-and-coming rugby player in the 1970s who turned down the chance of an international career because he refused to tour Apartheid South Africa. A fabulous, fabulous man and true sportsman, who has been left permanently disabled by Jeska's attack.

And Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, Kelly Holmes and all other supporters - you women rock. I was at the England v Italy women's rugby international yesterday, and it was inspirational. So many brilliant women athletes, and a crowd of 10,500 plus! It's their future we're fighting for.

borntobequiet · 10/03/2019 18:43

Pushing the idea of non-trans, binary as a more sensible identification for someone who is really a woman but just wants some pointless words.

goldengummybear · 10/03/2019 19:12

I'm a considerate person who would happily use preferred pronouns and thought live and let live. Then I heard the word cis-woman and was literally HmmAngry I am a woman and will not have that label taken from me.

Roomba · 10/03/2019 19:28

It was meeting Anna Lee, who had decided to stand for NUS Women's Officer that got me thinking about this, although the sports issue had already had me thinking about it a lot for some years.

Haworthia · 10/03/2019 21:38

Ohh, I remember Anna Lee. That was a while ago, wasn’t it? It feels like it was early on in my ever-increasing peak trans journey.

vickyjgo · 11/03/2019 06:53

As a woman with a trans history and someone who is a mum I find this thread deeply disturbing. I know very many trans men and women and do not recognise any of the charactectures you paint. I find it very sad that you obsess over 0.6% of the population in this way.

Datun · 11/03/2019 08:39

I doubt anyone here is lying vickyjgo. What would be the point?