Help a brother out

[Glinner]

Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

rightreckoner, exactly, I despise the BBC. I spit at radio 4 & 5. I loved having radio 4 on as the background to my life and now if it happens across my eardar I don’t believe a word they utter. Have Jenni Murray on a pedestal and hate what has happened to her. I’d love to have several drinks with her...

Oh and..where have all the butches gone? Are they all really men now? Are they bollocks, I have known and loved some fine butches in my time and they were/all very much women challenging feminine stereotypes and suffering for it, but showing us all that there is another way, what about the young butch women now, how can they escape all the trans ideology bullshit? How can we help them, we need to be more visible so our young people know that there are other voices.

Oh shit, I just got a message saying that people are worried I will screenshot their stories and their usernames would be known. I'm very sorry if anyone was distressed and please don't take your stories down! I will in future remove any identifying names and will redo the one I did post. So sorry!

actually, I have left the one I did up as it's part of a thread but I've messaged the poster to check if it's ok. If it isn't I'll remove it.

Future screengrabs will have names blurred. Sorry again if I gave you all heart attacks

All of these accounts are BIG news.

You'd think, wouldn't you?

This thread should be required reading.

I am saddened that my peak trans has also been peak BBC. My trust in them to inform and educate has disappeared due to their policy of hide and indoctrinate on trans issues. It feels like a bereavement.

This is a public website that anyone can look at. You don't even need to sign up to the forum to read every single post on the entire site. If anyone here is worried about other people knowing their username (??), I suggest they stop posting. The trans activists are reading this and any of it can and may well be screen shotted at any time.

Anonymity can be compromised if you reveal too much on one username, but nothing will happen to you just from another person knowing your username which is already publicly recorded.

Yes. The feeling that I can’t trust the BBC has been very upsetting for me. Could I ever trust them? Was I just naive ?

Probably

This thread is seriously powerful..in regards to your last message Glinner, thank you for listening, basically. I find it quite depressing to be so..grateful to a man for being a decent person, but this whole thing has really opened my eyes to how many men really do look down on women and see them as lesser, their concerns hysterical, their wishes stupid, their needs irrelevant, etc etc.

Also yes, TRAs regularly stalk this section of MN in particular. The amount of deletions of peoples heartfelt posts on here should show how much they stalk here really. I suggest regular namechanges, for anyone concerned. You must realise that every post has potential to be copied to twitter and (usually) misquoted or made out to be the opposite of what it was, and so on. TRAs 'moderate' the board. Actually thinking about it, do HQ still do the absolutely ridiculous 'report via twitter' nonsense? Also for new posters, FWR section is moderated much heavier than the rest of the forum, because of TRA watchers. The 'guidelines' appear t only apply here, as we must not let women speak freely in the feminist section! Yes its a tightrope for moderators, but I do feel a lot of the time, they kind of..encourage the abusive reporting that the men who want to keep women in check do.

Jenni Murray.

It was the pile ons I got (& still get!) on Facebook.

I'm absolutely your stereotypical Guardianista (middle aged, female, teacher, goth & most of my friends are 'alternative' to some extent in terms of the music/fashion they like, ex-vegetarian, instinctively leftie etc etc). I've been surrounded by GNC people my whole life - have worked & partied & had relationships with them.

But I've always been quite active on social media, & up for a debate about anything, & so I have people I chat to right across any & all spectrums of views.

Then I started seeing a few things that made me uneasy re the trans narrative. Posted a few articles/links in a ' not sure about this' sort of way. Felt bad about it - I have lovely trans friends, & didn't want to upset or hurt them, obviously...

One friend - total woke bloke, a bit eccentric but thoroughly likeable, I've always thought - promptly & in short order called me a TERF, a 'monster', a bigot, 'on the wrong side of history'.

I pointed him to evidence of the abuse feminists were getting for saying 'hang on a minute not sure about this TWAW thing' - websites like terfisaslur. His response was that a) I was making it up b) well, OK, the website existed but it was probably all made up by TERFs so I was clearly an idiot & also a bigot for falling for it & c) yeah but even if lovely nice TRAs are posting things like that, TERFs are terrible people & deserve it all.

Wait a minute, I said, are you saying I - your friend of 20 years - deserve this sort of abuse? For disagreeing with you?

He hedged a bit, but his response was pretty much, yes, if you say anything that isn't unquestioningly TWAW, you are indeed a bigot! Entirely your own fault if you get abuse - & anyway it's not abuse! It's perfectly reasonable push back! You evil TERF, you!

Woah.

Then loads of other friends started telling me off, too. Mostly in a more in sorrow than anger hey Purple you've obviously got a bit confused about this kind of way. I was told it was 'heartbreaking' that I was 'spewing bigotry' - this about Karen White.

Then people started agreeing with me. Mostly by PM because they were scared to post publicly.

& at THAT point, I thought, fuck this for a laugh. I've been arguing online/in person for 30+ years on all sorts of issues & some of those debates have been pretty heated. But no one's ever told me before either 'you're wrong, so you deserve to be abused & threatened OR 'you're right, but I'm too scared to speak up'. Fuck that noise.

Oddly, lots of the people who were shouting TWAW have gone rather quiet recently.

Thanks, Glinner, for everything you've said on this issue.

The Rose McGowan debacle. I felt like I was watching a completely different video to the Libfems on the boards and on Twitter. I saw an aggressive numpty harassing a sexual abuse survivor whose “crime” was suggesting that women and Transwomen have different life experiences on a podcast. Then it came out about this numpty’s past, their supporters still defended them and even suggested that the teenagers allegations against the numpty were lies. I thought the whole thing was batshit. I went down the rabbit hole.

I considered myself a libfems, I didn’t know that I was expected to co-sign abusive behaviour, misogyny and bad science to be considered so. I hoped it was just an internet thing but it’s not.

People can identify as anything they want, it doesn’t mean it’s true.

Also yes, TRAs regularly stalk this section of MN in particular. The amount of deletions of peoples heartfelt posts on here should show how much they stalk here really. I suggest regular namechanges, for anyone concerned. You must realise that every post has potential to be copied to twitter and (usually) misquoted or made out to be the opposite of what it was, and so on. TRAs 'moderate' the board

Its a sad irony that for much of the time carefully worded heartfelt posts are written under scrutiny from self-identified external 'monitors' whilst often the right advert bar has the link to MN 'Walking on Eggshells' video. This MN video is part of the campaign with Women's Aid and the Police to raise awareness of coercive control.

Women who have been in abusive relationships recognise the patterns of attempts to control.

'Walking on eggshells'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC1pCi-GwGU

"A new Mumsnet survey to mark the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, run in partnership with Women’s Aid and Surrey Police, reveals that 38% of the survey respondents say they have been in a controlling or abusive relationship* with a partner – but almost a quarter (24%) of users who said they had been in a controlling or abusive relationship told no-one about any incidents of controlling or abusive behaviour"

There is a need to raise not just awareness of this within abusive , controlling relationships but also so there is wider knowledge & recognition of the specific dynamics about how this works online and in real life exchanges.

As the MN 'But We Took You To Country Houses' threads & countless others have demonstrated, some people can behave abusively & manipulate regardless of their sex or 'gender identity'.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

Yes, the coercive control video is to the right of my screen now.

I pointed him to evidence of the abuse feminists were getting for saying 'hang on a minute not sure about this TWAW thing' - websites like terfisaslur. His response was that a) I was making it up b) well, OK, the website existed but it was probably all made up by TERFs so I was clearly an idiot & also a bigot for falling for it & c) yeah but even if lovely nice TRAs are posting things like that, TERFs are terrible people & deserve it all.

Well, I have been too aware of trans ideology for over 30 years.
I am intersex. long story, but from age 9 - 19 i lived as a female, complex stuff. But medical professional suggested that was best option for my condition.
So yes i grew up as boy up to age of 9, and then as a teen i lived as female, looked very female, most of my biology is primarily female.
So yes i have lived as both, and my body is a bit of both.
I switched back to living as male at age 19, after a levels, as could not cope with becoming a "normal wife and mother" - that i was told was my destiny. Tried to like boys/men but was not going to happen (another long story)

Anyway I recall being aware of trans women, and AT first i had sympathy - thinking they had issues like mine.

But i soon realised they were often self obsessed and were demanding rights that I felt were not right. I do not use female only facilities since I switched back to male.

Yes I have to attend many NHS female services, cervical smears etc (another long story)

But i respect womens privacy from men, and as I look male now (10 yrs of synthetic testosterone from age 19 to 29) - i would not want to shock and offend women in their private spaces. so I do not ue changing rooms, nor swimming pools etc.

Neither do I use male changing rooms, as my naked body is too female. I adapt to society and respect womens rights. I have been screaming DELUSION for decades and sadly even women had sympathy for them.. and society has accept their demands.

They are now funded by many liberal left sources that wish to undermine western culture at its source. In schools, families, work places etc....

I have been to prison, in UK, for fraud, 2 yrs... and that has made me more aware. I did not scream oppression - i did not even tell the court nor the prison when i arrrived... i was placed in a male prison - as I ID and look male... but MY NHS number is linked to my female issues.. SO - BOOM - they paniced (another long story)

BUT male prisons have "safer custody units" and staff that will ensure vulnerable prisoners are not at risk, i was NOT at risk, because no one need to know, BUT they made sure i had private shower facilty and got supplies of tampons etc ( not normal for male prisons) -

an aside - DO NOT GO TO PRISON - woeful tampons (cardboard applicators) & pads are like bricks

SO Trans women can get full protection from general prison population (i have posted on the prison - TRANS - threat on this board)

So i have been fully aware, and please society is waking up, sadly trans often use intersex conditions to validate their situation - so many people now assume INTERSEX = TRANS - which is so wrong.

Do not be fooled by trans women if they suggest they are intersex... i would have loved to have been born a normal healthy human of EITHER sex, than be intersex - it is NOT the best of both worlds, it is in fact the worse of both.

These men are not ill, they have often taken a cross dressing fetish to an extreme . Yet think being intersex is something they would love.

I should write a book, but it would mean opening up so many issues, most intersex ppl stay very private - there is VAST stigma..

Sad that trans women are so open and will use facilities when clearly NOT female, and we have to play their fantasy -

For me (male, leftist, >50) stage 1 was seeing the treatment given to women who I thought of as allies & in some cases heroes - people like Germaine, Linda Bellos and Helen Steel. Stage 2 was when I dug a bit deeper and heard what had happened to Anne Ruzylo and why. But what really 'peaked' me was

• leaving a GC comment on a friend's left-wing blog
• being personally attacked by another commenter
• protesting mildly about this comment (it was abusive, obscene and anonymous)
• getting a lecture from my friend for my pains (I should realise that this wasn't just an academic debate, people were under attack, they had the right to challenge views they disagreed with in robust terms...)

It's the refusal of debate, the silencing, the exclusion - and the way that everyone, especially on the left, seems to think this is all fine. I really don't get it. Even if TRAs' positive proposals were all sunshine and puppies, I think I'd still view them with great suspicion, just because of the way they handle disagreement (i.e. they don't).

Must've been twenty years ago, I was only a kid, I'd come across a transsexual in a book, and was trying to explain the concept to my dad. I was so painfully earnest in my explanation of how these poor beleaguered souls needed to be "treated like women" for the sake of their mental health; he just raised an eyebrow and I could see how horribly sexist it was before he even said it.

I understood trans to mean HSTS then, and after much consideration I came to the conclusion that the very concept of transition for these people only made sense in the context of a society with strict sex stereotypes. And it made perfect sense to me that these people should be treated with sympathy and decent mental health care while we're working on dismantling the stereotypes that lead them to believe they can't function properly in the world as a member of their sex.

No one else seemed to want to discuss those stereotypes, though, and if they did, it was always in a context of empowerment rather than dismantlement. I watched the rise of Everyday Feminism with a growing feeling of unease.

And then I started seeing a bloke with a thing for women's knickers, and we talked extensively about his fetishes. For years. I was operating on so-called sex-positive principles at the time, reasoning that so long as no one was getting hurt and everyone was consenting people can get off to whatever the hell weird fantasies they like. I first heard of AGP from him.

But at some point during these conversations (in which he was always honest and open and happy to engage with feminist talking points) I spotted the parallel. His humiliation fetish may be his own private business, but its manifestation is enabled by the context of a sexist society that says emasculation - being forcibly made woman-like - is the most humiliating thing imaginable.

And then Tara Hudson happened, and I realised just how out-of-kilter my perspective is compared to all the socialist lefty grauniad types I hung around with; and it is thanks to MN, the consciousness-raising effect of FWR and Relationships, that I thought sod 'em and started shouting about the sexism, on social media and in real life. Haven't stopped since.

I’ve seen a few of your posts now, Sam, and I just wanted to say how welcome your unique voice is, here on the FwR boards.
We’ve often become incensed at how intersex conditions are exploited by TRAs - many of us have actually swotted up quite a lot on differences/disorders of sexual development so that we can be informed in our rebuttals. Glad to have you here, speaking for yourself.

I haven’t looked at the latest prisons thread yet, but I am very impressed with Richard Garside’s decision to speak out directly, in defence of women. Let’s hope the government pay attention.

(For what it’s worth, I think if the plans for completely separate trans units go ahead, there is no reason why vulnerable trans and intersex people convicted of non violent/non sex crimes couldn’t be housed in units that are part of the women’s estate - that way trans and intersex people with female reproductive systems have a fighting chance at getting a better selection of sanitary products/receiving appropriate gynaecological care!)

SO Trans women can get full protection from general prison population (i have posted on the prison - TRANS - threat on this board)

Sam2112 has posted important insight and comment.

thread is here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3519790-statement-on-transgender-prisoners-centre-for-crime-and-justice-studies

refers to recently published request for responses:

"Transgender prisoners thoughts and feedback
The Centre for Crime and Justice Studies recognises that fair, decent and respectful provision for trans prisoners is a complex area of policy and practice, with a number of different, and principled, views, perspectives and concerns, sometimes expressed strongly and emotively.
We seek to encourage calm, respectful and informed public dialogue, where differing positions are explored and principled differences are recognised and discussed.
We also believe it is important that solutions are sought where possible; and disagreement acknowledged and recognised respectfully. Conflict often generates opportunities for new thinking to emerge.
You can read our full statement here.
Share your thoughts with us below. You can do so anonymously"

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/transgender-prisoners-thoughts-and-feedback

yes that is a critical point of the prison issue.
Trans women suggest they are a threat of abuse in a male prison.
However I can confirm that the majority of male prisons have "SAFER CUSTODY UNITS" to take care of
"sex offenders"
"celebs"
"Vulnerable men, (maybe gay etc)"
"trans women"
"well known prisoners" - those who r at risk of being attacked for their crimes
These prisoners get different wing, or rooms,
I was given private shower, and a "safer custody officer" (female) who ensured i was able to get the tampons etc i needed...
I was not at risk, now would any trans woman be.

They use to appease their fantasy and delusion. self obsessed -

Lily Madigan,Jenner,prisons and refuges,girl guides, bloody toilets and changing rooms and sport!

It all added up rather quickly once I saw how courtesy and kindness led to taking over and a trampling of women's and girl's safety and rights. I feel sorry for old school transexuals who are dragged into this but the transtrenders really really wind me up with their entitlement, threats and violence.

sam your voice is so welcome here. The TRA use of intersex conditions as wedge argument is appalling.

Yes, it makes me so angry when TRAs appropriate intersex experiences. I have seen it so much recently, with the sport thing. 'I you accept Semeyna as a woman, then you must accept transwomen' and such. Its not the fucking same, at all.