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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Help a brother out

701 replies

Glinner · 26/02/2019 15:06

Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

OP posts:
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17
Horsewithnom · 27/02/2019 15:32

I hear you're a feminist now, Father!

Germaine Greer in particular and radical feminists on tumblr generally sort of funnelled me to this place. My peak? Probably yeah, when GG was no platformed that made me think about this stuff.

As an aside I have never in my life thought that men dressing in women's clothes for laughs (Les Dawson, Lily Savage, corporal Klinger, Tootsie, Mrs Bloody Doubtfire, Mrs Brownboys or whoever the fuck it is this week) is actually funny. But that's just me. In fact I think it's quite insulting. Takes the piss. We rightly condemn blackface and as racist so why isn't a man pretending to be a woman - for laughs - regarded as sexist in our culture? When I'm not sure about sexism I reverse things and this one is really stark for me because women dressing up as men for laughs are so thin on the ground. When a woman gets a "pants part" it's often a positive thing in panto compared to all the fun we can have with ugly sisters and twanky. What I'm really trying to say (badly) I think is this - we live in sexist world where we are encouraged to find a man dressed as a woman to be hilarious. It's part of our culture. And now, all of a sudden, we are being asked not to laugh. But take it seriously.

placemats · 27/02/2019 16:19

Hi Glinner

Just crossed from Dublin back to Holyhead in the last few days. It was a lovely journey.

I'm Irish. I've given birth to three children, had two miscarriages and an abortion. I'm a woman.

I've got two sisters and two cousins who haven't had children, but they are all women to me. All sisters and cousins have had abortions.

What peaked me was several years ago on a rad fem thread. Those women were flippin fantastic. I mean they predicted that there would be a riot.

I've gone through a very bad divorce, where I was walking on eggshells all the time. It was so stressful.

I peaked seriously with the cis nonsense. I am a female.

My belief now is. Biological sex is real. Get over it!

cuspish · 27/02/2019 16:24

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RunningWild12 · 27/02/2019 16:56

Responding to GRA consultation in Scotland. Thanks to my mate's good thinking, we got a meeting with civil servants re: the consultation, before we filled it in.
5 of us went along. There was a very senior male civil servant, who told us he had worked on the GRA. I'm trying to remember what dept - Justice? Family Division? And 4 other female civil servants, one from equalities, another I think in Justice, one I can't remember and another who was representing Civil Service LGBTQ group .
I don't know if this was the trade union lgbtq rep or what, but quite odd that she was there.
Anyway, we had had a pre-meeting to decide what the main points were we wanted to get across and who would say what. I was kicking off with questions about their definitions. Gender/gender identity/sex all being confused, no proper definition of woman etc.
And the LGBTQ woman got really quite cross with me. It was impossible to define woman as this was subjective experience for everyone. And gender id was innate and manifested itself at age 3. None of the others disagreed, the man was the most supportive. What the other women felt I don't know, cos I don't think they were ever going to say what they really thought in front of the other two.
Massive tumbleweed moment. None of us could actually believe she was saying this. As the session wore other pro trans ideology statements were made. It was clear that they thought non binary should be seen as a third sex.
The consultation questions themselves were biased and an example of how not to do a questionnaire. I'm willing to bet it was farmed out to an LGBT group to do.
Then when you look at the meetings of the LGBT+ in Scottish Parliament, bringing together loads of LGBT groups and MSPs and others and see what they've been discussing..Well, let's just say a feminist critique of gender is not on the agenda. At one meeting (need to check minutes - they're online, just google Scottish Parliament lgbtq+) it was minuted that any opposition to self ID would be from a small number of anti-trans feminists.

This is the way we are talked about in the Scottish Parliament. I have absolutely zero evidence that they will do anything other than follow the woke line in order to be seen to be progressive. All fur coat and nae knickers is the Scottish Govt and Parliament. Virtue signalling while poverty rises, homelessness rockets, male violence increases.

I'm not letting them do it without a fight.

Bowlofbabelfish · 27/02/2019 16:58

the taliban. I remember arguing on a bus ages back that women’s rights were precarious.

Then I had a baby. I was very ill while I was pregnant and my husband’s constant refrain was ‘but why aren’t they taking this seriously? If I went in with those symptoms I’d be admitted..men wouldn’t put up with this.’

I experienced first hand the inequality in how women are treated (I bet pregnancy and birth create more radfems than most other events.) at the same time I was unfortunate to run across a couple of people who exhibited some truly unpleasant behaviours - real cluster B types.

So that was the background.

Then Jenner won woman of the year and the reaction to that (brave! Stunning!) did me. I’m a scientist and my stock in trade is reality. Humans can’t change sex.

So I came over here, and the wonderful women of FWR opened my eyes.

The denial of reality is one thing - some people are delusional and that’s just life. But what’s sinister is the compelled speech and the forcing of opinion. It pulls together a lot of what I think is wrong with current year society; ID politics, neutering of debate, simplification of language to make people less able to express complex concepts (just shove a fucking emoji in! Who needs words?) no platforming, compelled speech, erosion of civil liberties, abuse of police power, restriction of expression via social media. So much converges on this.

What brought actual boiling rage on was the damage to children.

Sicario · 27/02/2019 17:16

I asked how women's (and girl's) hard-won sex-based rights could be upheld if the definition of woman is changed to include men. Then the abuse started...

Verv · 27/02/2019 18:12

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Haworthia · 27/02/2019 18:20

A transwoman peak transed me.

An old university friend announced they were transitioning. At uni we all knew he was into crossdressing and porn and having chat room sex “as a girl” (this was the very early 00s, which is why “chat room sex” seems like a million years ago). Wasn’t surprised by this news and was initially very supportive. Want to join our club? The more the merrier.

But as time went on, I realised they were still so very very male. Still worked in a macho industry, still did their macho hobbies, still made misogynistic jokes on Facebook, hated children and made no secret of how glad they were that they could never get pregnant... Hmm

Then I first heard the word “autogynephile” and everything made sense. That’s what they were. Then I knew that female wasn’t a feeling. I knew that you couldn’t be born, raised and socialised as a male and know the slightest thing about what it is to be female. Voiced as much amongst a group of female friends and was immediately ostracised.

Only then did I realise that I was apparently a bigot. Kept my views on the DL ever since, not just for fear of losing more friendships but because I’m scared of being doxxed and threatened.

Despite that, another old (female) friend of 20+ years must have noticed one too many Twitter “likes” and now she’s ostracised me too.

Muddysnowdrop · 27/02/2019 18:46

Germaine Greer, in The Whole Woman, about 20 years ago. Obviously a lot of other things since!

russianterfbot · 27/02/2019 18:54

Hi, not a regular here but an avid lurker and wanted to add my voice.
I was in a relationship with someone many moons ago who referred to themselves a transvestite. We were only in our teens, and I told my partner that I was accepting of the whole thing and had no objections (even found it slightly endearing) but it didn’t get me off! As such they kept their dressing up private, but shaved their legs, did their eyebrows and things like that. All the same, they would tell me how their fantasy was that they were a lesbian being raped by a group of lesbians, and when we slept together (sorry to be so graphic but I feel it’s significant) they would make submissive ‘feminine’ sounds, have their eyes closed and writhe around on the bed as though fighting off imaginary lesbians(ie me!) Clear case of AGP as far as I could see, which I had no objection to in principle, but as a straight woman it just didn’t do it for me. I felt like a bit of a prop in their fantasy image of themselves rather than being present in the moment. I felt anything I did that was remotely feminine (and I’m really not a ‘girly girl’) would be cooed over in a way that made me feel uncomfortable – clothes I might be wearing, or if I was doing something in the kitchen. It’s no coincidence to me that this person also seemed to fetishize the fact that I was of lower class status than them, in a ‘common people’ kind of way.

We’ve stayed on good terms all these years, albeit at a distance due to living locations, and a few years ago my ex told me they were living as a woman all the time now. We’d previously had a chat where I said that men can’t actually become women and neither do they share the same experiences, and my ex agreed, but at the same time said it was just what they wanted to do. I tried to be supportive and said they should do whatever they feel then, we always cared about each other enough to accept our differences.

Fast forward a few years and I started to see some really aggressive comments from trans/allied friends of my ex on their Facebook timeline. They seemed mentally unstable. I remember my ex posting that someone had tried to make conversation with them on the street using ‘It must be difficult being trans in (insert redneck town)’ to which they’d told them to fuck off because they found acknowledging the fact they were trans to be offensive (my ex is over six foot and built like a brick shithouse, square jaw etc, so unfortunately for them they will never pass). I commented that even if it was clumsy, it sounded like they were trying to be friendly, to which I was met with transplaining about street harassment (because of course as a mere woman I’ve never, ever experienced that since I was 13). My ex now often uses the words T, and c. One recent comment from my ex’s friend (male – they always are when they speak like this) refers to gleefully warming their hands whilst watching a T** - no, lets say what it really is, a woman like me who knows what a woman actually is - burning to death on a fire, with a vivid description of the flames licking their flesh. This is considered the progressive stance, to see someone like me, who he knows nothing about other than the fact that I disagree on what constitutes a woman, burn to death on a fire and watch the flames dance around by murdered body. This is the level of reasoning we have on this issue, it's just a big old excuse to let the woman hating rage full-throttle really, isn't it?

After I became more and more uncomfortable by the kinds of things I saw posted, I did a bit of reading and asked a few questions on Twitter to result in the TRA pile on, being called a bigot, transphobe, nazi, cis-privileged, an anti-abortion fundamentalist Christian amongst other things. It was unhinged. I found myself on terfblocker and blocked by LOJ after one day. I think that’s when I headed over to Mumsnet.

I like to think my ex isn’t such a bad person, I wouldn’t have stayed in touch all this time otherwise, but I always knew they were incredibly self-absorbed and a bit of a fantasist. I feel that the trans ideology that has emerged in recent years has allowed them to demand all their sexual fantasies as rights, and the change in describing themselves from transvestite to transwoman is a way of legitimising their sexual fetish as an ‘identity’. I sympathise with the kind of harassment and prejudice they get from others, and the fact that they have had various health problems due to the medication they take. I’m not using this example to suggest all trans people have AGP either. Yet still, everything about this person – their socialisation and their physicality - is male. I don’t mean that as a condemnation, it just is what it is, and their dressing up as a woman and wearing breasts is their fetish. As such, they deserve the same rights as everyone else, but they should never be allowed to claim a woman’s space for themselves on account of their kink.

Perhaps my internalised misogyny as well as the fact I’m not a mother myself meant I had no idea what an intelligent conversation was being had on Mumsnet until late last year. I am so grateful for the arguments posters deliver with such clarity and wit, I would never have learned half the things I have without them. Much respect to Glinner and the other prominent figures brave enough to discuss this also, I have felt utter despair over the lack of support for women, children and transrationals, as well as just the general throwing reason and science under the bus for the sake of virtue-signalling. It’s been a real eye opener to the extent of misogyny that persists in our society and the sheer ignorance over the realities of what it really means to experience life as a woman.

Connieston · 27/02/2019 18:57

Actually I remember the Whole Woman too - I was thinking about that earlier. That and the Female Eunuch. In one or both GG described cross-dressers (given the vernacular of the time) as "pantomime dames" which at the time I thought was just spiteful but given a decade of two of being a woman whether I like it or not, I see what she was saying. She gets a load of flak but she centres women and their lived experience.

I also remember Magdalen Berns asking why Alex from Stonewall needs to "widen the bandwith of what it is to be a woman" - she asks reasonably, why can't he widen the bandwith of what it is to be male? She asks what he is contributing to womanhood. It's a brilliant analysis.

FeministCat · 27/02/2019 19:04

Oh I see my post was deleted by MNHQ. Fortunately I saved it and have edited myself...second round.

I am not on Twitter, Tumblr, etc so was quite unaware for some time of where the whole transactivism movement had gone. I grew up in the 80s and 90s when androgynous men and women were just...androgynous men and women. Men could wear eyeliner and skirts and still be male rockstars, women could wear plaid shirts and short hair and still be female rockstars. I knew some transsexuals, even worked with a couple over the years, but they were the ones trying to quietly transition - surgically - and live their lives peacefully and without fanfare. They did not push into women’s washrooms. I thought we were on a path to abolishing sex stereotype roles.

When Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner, I initially thought nothing of it. But my first peak was when they were announced as “Woman of the Year” and they declared the hardest part of being a woman is deciding what to wear.

Been peaking ever since regularly: seeing the TWAW mantra to the point of verbally abusive nonsense, chemical and surgical castration and transition of children who are just “non-conforming” to sexist stereotypes, AGP, the strict reinforcement of gender roles, men wearing our faces and declaring themselves as more woman than natal women, underwear for “trans kids” that allow them to tuck or have “penises”, the mutilation of Jazz Jennings, women being deplatformed for “misgendering” or speaking up for girls and women, girls and women being told to push over for the comfort of men because wanting their own spaces is transphobic, the denial of ROGD by the TRAs, girls and women now told to be nice and compete in sports with men some who have done nothing more than declare themselves women days weeks months before competing in what these girls and women have trained years for, the lying about stats about violence against transwomen to inflate them and ignoring that the violence comes from men, the mantra that the solution to protect transwomen from violent men is to tell women to accept men into their safe spaces, men walking around dicks out in locker rooms around teenage girls because “I identify as a woman”, the promotion of sissification as so womanly, sex offenders and pedophiles and violent criminals getting access to girls and women because they now identify as women and have access to women’s washroom or prison, women’s washrooms being turned into “gender neutral” and men’s washrooms staying men’s washrooms, seeing transwomen are now “entitled” to women’s uterus, being told by someone who attacks others over misgendering that I am either c*s (because I as a woman am a woman) or that I must be trans (because I as a woman don’t “act” like a woman), being told I can’t talk about my uterus, vagina, or menstruation because “not all women menstruate”, being told I should refer to myself as a “menstruating person”, or that I have a “front hole” not a vagina, that lesbians should accept “feminine penis”, hearing that I as a straight woman am transphobic for not wanting to date a man who says he is a woman because they still have a penis after all, seeing men rallying against pussy hats, rape shelters, and women’s marches for not being inclusive of men, finding on forms I often don’t even have option of saying my sex is female/woman instead I have to give “gender” or “what I identify as”.

Well, I need to take a breath but there we are. The list above is far from complete and I am sure as I read this thread I will have some more to add to my peaks.

I have always identified as a feminist and against gender stereotypes and roles, though I did not quite feel I fit in with the third wave sex worker sex-positivism, feminism is pink power, thing that was emerging in my youth, as well as a close friend and ally of LGBT (as I knew it and it was called once upon a time). I however also got used to silencing myself for many years to keep the peace and as I also was very much a live and let live person. I just got on with it and in my own life rejected stereotypes, married a man who felt as me about stereotypes, worked in and progressed in my education and career though it was not one always favorable to women, participated in hobbies that tended to be more male dominated and just got on with it.

Well, no more. Seeing decisions and actions to roll back women’s rights as a whole - including their reproductive ones, while promoting the trampling of those rights by TRAs means I no longer will be silent.

R0wantrees · 27/02/2019 19:07

Then I first heard the word “autogynephile” and everything made sense. That’s what they were. Then I knew that female wasn’t a feeling. I knew that you couldn’t be born, raised and socialised as a male and know the slightest thing about what it is to be female. Voiced as much amongst a group of female friends and was immediately ostracised.

'The Elephant In The Room'
article by Sue Donym

concludes:
"If there’s one thing you ought to do, it’s discuss the elephant. Please discuss the elephant. Don’t leave it rampaging around the room, destroying everything in its path.

Autogynephilia is a weird concept. It can be inaccessible. But it needs to be discussed in the LGBT community, and openly. Not talking about it is causing way too much damage — we have had our organizations taken over, our spaces colonized, and our sexuality redefined. Thanks to these men, you can no longer say ‘I am, gay, meaning exclusively same-sex attracted’ without being labelled a TERF. That’s not a good thing.

Dancing around the subject isn’t helpful. While the ultimate result of autogynephilia is homophobic rhetoric, is important to remember that a sexual fantasy, not homophobia, motivates such rhetoric. That is the root cause of the problem.

Worse is the effect on autogynephiles themselves. ‘Transgender’ is not an umbrella. It is a term that erases the very different motivations and causes of various forms of gender dysphoria. It does people who claim the label absolutely no favors. The original inclusion of the ‘T’ was designed for homosexual transsexuals, and include them with other same-sex attracted individuals. It was not designed to include autogynephiles, who are heterosexual males, or ‘queer’ individuals who are heterosexual but believe dying their hair some variation of neon should mean they are included. Making ‘transgender’ an umbrella not only erases the very different causes and struggles associated with homosexual transsexuality, it also obscures the causes of, and struggles associated with autogynephilia. Autogynephilia is not a condition I would wish on anyone. It is a unique, somewhat bizarre struggle, and reading through many of the accounts of it was quite sad. It can make its sufferers lonely and unable to connect with intimate partners. But enabling it, and on a grand scale, has caused immense damage to homosexuals, particularly lesbians, who have lost almost all their spaces and communities to colonization.

Please discuss the elephant."
medium.com/@sue.donym1984/the-elephant-in-the-room-dc822144a81b

powershowerforanhour · 27/02/2019 19:12

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Smartieshavetheanswer · 27/02/2019 19:33

About 4 years ago, I wandered over to FWR after kicking my heels in Chat, Propery and DIY and The Staff Room.

Datun turned my head and I quickly learned about Magdalen Berns and the cotton ceiling. I admit, I thought it sounded far-fetched and science-fictiony.

Watching Riley J Denis claim lesbianism as his own was an open mouthed moment, quickly followed by Daniel Muscato. The interview with Germaine Greer was a defining moment too. My peak trans happened about a week after I started reading Datun's patient replies to my questions - it dawned on me incredibly slowly that, at the time, the general public thought that the wimmin were exaggerating and being hysterical.

Several name changes later because of the constant fear of doxxing and I'm still here. I tend to lurk more than post, have deleted and reinstated the Twitter app more times to
Count but still I will push
Forward. There is too much at stake. I have 3 daughters.

I'm on a twitter break at the moment - I sleep badly and am
Too absorbed when I'm reading about this ideology - but I will stand alongside Glinner, Rosa, Kathleen Stock, Julie B, Stephanie, Jean, Fionne and too many others to mention. I am dismayed at recent events causing a divide - we must stand together and drive forward.

I'm the kind of person that will help anyone out - carry their bags, give them the last penny in my pocket, will listen, will try and help, but there is something deeply disturbing about a man who proclaims to be a better woman than I. I am not an identity, I am me, complete with flaws and imperfections.

I continue to break my heart when I read about period poverty, domestic violence, period huts, breast ironing, FGM, prostitution, the rise of porn and it's easy access and ROGD. The internet and social media phenomenon has an awful lot to answer for.

I worry for my daughters. That is why I will continue to fight for fairness. There is too much at stake.

motherofhares · 27/02/2019 19:38

Hi Glinner,

My eyes were opened through following you on Twitter, falling down a rabbit hole, reading about things I never even knew existed! And Caitlin Jenner - that absolutely boiled my piss!

I’m a middle aged leftie woman. I’m an educated professional, a wife and a mother. I’ve lived through all sorts of inequality, but even in the dark days of the 80s I’ve never felt so vulnerable. Above all I am a WOMAN a no man will ever share some of the things I have experienced. 18 years ago I gave birth to my stillborn daughter - my husband shared my loss and pain but even he knows he can never truly experience the loss and pain I felt. I resent anyone telling me that my experience is nothing compared to that of the trans woman (as happened to me recently).

I’m uncomfortable about sharing private spaces with male-bodied people.
I’m worried for my teenage daughter who is unsure about her sexuality (although my point is, at 13 who knows who you fancy?)
I am not a ciswoman, and I won’t call myself that. I am a proud woman, a strong woman, a woman who has dealt with a lot of shit but is still here fighting.

And I’m angry!

mement0mori · 27/02/2019 19:44

After the Anarchist Bookfair in October 2017 when Helen Steel was mobbed for being a "transphobe" (I wasn't there but I have a friend who witnessed it and said that it was like the Red Guard in action), I couldn't quite come to terms with the idea that HS was a transphobe and I started to read about what had happened online.

It was all a bit of a shock to be honest and I first had to come to terms with the fact that I would be considered to be transphobic purely on the basis that I don't actually believe that trans women are literally women. Knowing that no amount of mental gymnastics would change this belief made me critically assess other stuff that I had just naively gone along with because I’m liberal and nice (or so I thought).

It’s done me a favour in a way because I had become very lazy with my thinking (generally) and I feel like I have had a bit of a mental/political awakening.

WomaninBoots · 27/02/2019 20:22

Wow.

This is a powerful thread.

I'm here because someone asked a question on another forum as they had been told they were a TERF for saying men don't get periods. I started googling. Ended up here and started reading and the whole damn thing just made me so very cross.

I am NOT cis. I do not identify with the mechanisms of my own oppression. I'm an autistic female who loves maths and maps and who has never got on with make-up and "being girly". The intimation entrenched in the transology is that male and female gender traits are innate and distinct from each other. I want to scream that they aren't. I know they aren't. I beat all the boys at the "boy stuff" all the time at school. Apart from, crucially, running and athletics. There I was hampered by the physiology of being female. It's just fucking reality.

It all comes together alongside getting my autism diagnosis about 35 years too late... because I'm female. The realisation that we might be looking at a mass sterilisation of autistic girls happening right under our noses makes my blood run cold. While at the same time I've been to the doctors 3 times to talk about sterilisation for me because the side effects of the pill were getting out of hand. Each time I've been dismissed as not knowing my own mind re not wanting to be a mother and exaggerating the side effects.... so teenagers are allowed to choose to mutilate and sterilise themselves because they know their true identity etc. But an adult woman in her mid-thirties is going to change her mind about wanting kids??

And everything else that has been said.

I was brought up religious. At one point when I first left the protective influence of my (much more sane than I used to give them credit for) parents I was brainwashed by a more fundamentalist branch of my then religion. I know what religious brainwashing looks and feels like. I see it here, in the transology.

Ecalpemos · 27/02/2019 20:23

Where do I start?? Germaine Greer and Jenny Murray being bullied and ostracised. The whole biology-denying bullshit. Women's sports. Women being silenced. Everyone going along with it, including some people who'd been feminists. Every single political party buying in to it, ALWAYS at the expense of women. The reprehensible abuse of children with experimental and irreversible treatments (I was a real tomboy, hated growing breasts and would absolutely have got sucked in to this abuse in my teens). I am so appreciative of Glinner and all the other brave folk who have consistently called this delusion out. I was at the Women's Place UK meeting in Norwich this week. Absolutely astonished and saddened to see women / lesbians (including key members of Norwich Pride) perpetuating this misogynistic horse shit and trying to shut down women's free speech. How the hell can women do this to other women? It reminds me of the women who opposed the suffragettes and fought against the vote for women. The female equivalent of an Uncle Tom. I can see why some men seek to oppress women (though I don't agree with it, of course) but why would women do this to other women? I wish that I could see an end to it, but it seems to really have gained ground. A couple of national newspapers have recently printed articles challenging it, but the Independent's recent sports article shows how brazen this hatred of women is. The other thing is that I'd always been very supportive of trans people, but now I'm wary of them and see them as encroaching on my human rights. I know that most trans people are peaceful and decent, but this crazy extremist element will cause damage for everyone, women and genuine trans people included.

Bowednotbroken · 27/02/2019 20:23

Like many people here it was the Spartacus threads that piqued my interest, and the wise and wonderful women patiently explaining over and over again. I've always been gender critical (am old gimmer now!). What gets me incandescent is the unfairness of it all - it's just so unfair that women's places, spaces, words and experiences are given away, trivialised, and trampled. Actually, 'unfair' isn't a big enough word - it's a bloody travesty of justice. How can the world sit by and watch girls having their breasts bound, cut off, be pumped full of hormones; children being told they're in the wrong bodies at ever-younger ages; oh - etc etc etc. I could go on but it's all been said, much more eloquently above. Keep on keeping on - we can't just roll over!!

angeldumottschunard · 27/02/2019 20:34

De-lurking here to say that this thread is so important. I’ve been very live and let live for an awfully long time, had a couple of MtF people at work and didn’t really bat an eyelid when I saw them in the women’s loos, so never thought I’d be on the FWR board but here I am.
Everything I feel has already been posted earlier on in the thread, much more articulately than I could manage. The starting point for me was the letter from the Guides (my DD is a Brownie) and I couldn’t quite believe their policy so I did some googling and ended up following a link to a MN thread on the FWR board, and that was me well and truly down the rabbit hole. The ‘break it down for me’ thread (I think that’s what it was called) was a real eye-opener. So while I’m still live and let live, ‘cis’, ‘cotton ceiling’, NGC children being told they’re trans and given experimental drugs, and transwomen competing against women in sport all give me the rage.

ManiacalMagpie · 27/02/2019 21:00

For me it was a personal interaction with an agp type who singlehandedly killed a very good online women’s writing group, and my being told that not accepting this person as a woman made me akin to a literal nazi. I don’t appreciate being gaslighted and pressured into going along with something I know not to be true. Had enough of that with my ex thanks.

That experience made me start questioning the whole narrative, and when a transoman was named woman-of-the-year I just stopped even trying, it was just too stupid. I’ll never believe that a man who feels like a woman can ever really know what it’s like to grow up as one, and that just seemed like the first step into pushing women out of all of the roles, awards and places created specifically for them. Turns out that was right on both counts.

ManiacalMagpie · 27/02/2019 21:09

I’m putting this into a separate post partly because it’s a bit long, and also in case it gets nuked for triggering someone, although it shouldn’t.

This is a bit of background context as to why this one person convinced me to question the narrative being pushed by activists. The woman running the writing group was the wokey-woke sort and was fine with having transwomen join, and most of us at that point had never really had any reason to question it.

Then this transwoman joined. Ex-military, they supposedly worked as a massage therapist from their home (according to them), had a tumblr page full of pictures of anime girls in dodgy poses, photos of women in lingerie, soft-core porn pics, lots and lots of chatter about being super-cute, and girly, and uwu (I still don’t know what uwu is but it crops up online with transwomen a lot) and it was just glitter and pink everywhere. Even my super-supportive friend (who I still talk to and have never brought this stuff up with because I suspect she falls on the woke side of things when it comes to all things trans) was disturbed by it. When this person spoke in the chat it was a high pitched, giggly, almost whiny voice like they were impersonating a young girl character in an anime.

Personality-wise, they were manipulative, trying to gaslight and guilt trip everyone, sending private messages to people and trying to stir up drama with he-said-she-said and so-and-so was mean to me etc. A few of us tried to do a collaborative writing exercise at one point, but they effectively killed it by having a character I suspect they’d based on themselves derail any scene they were in so they could be centre of attention, and then had the character try to commit suicide when we tried to get back on track. A few of us just ended up dropping out because it made us so uncomfortable, and while I know a friend of mine tried to talk to this person and get them to understand why people had left, it just ended up being reflected back on the group - it was our fault for overreacting, our fault for not communicating etc.

They caused so much drama in the group we started loosing members almost as fast as we had new ones join. I eventually walked because I was just sick of dealing with their narcissistic nonsense, and I heard not long after that the group folded and died completely. My friend ran into them again a few months later trying to run their own group, and had pretty much the exact same experience before she decided to call it quits.

This person, I was supposed to call a woman and I just couldn’t do it. And for a long time was confused as to why and whether or not it made me an awful person. I kind of came to the conclusion that it was just that I was seeing straight through their rubbish, possibly in part because every single tactic they used when interacting with the group was an exact replica of the tactics used by my abusive, gaslighting ex. It felt like aggressive, manipulative, attention seeking behaviour and it pretty much was.

Since then it’s just been a slow moving snowball of insanity - the Speaker’s corner incident, the issues with the woman-adult human female billboards, TRA refusals to debate anything, the women’s sports issues and so on. But my interactions with that one person who effectively single handedly killed a very friendly women’s writing circle was probably what peak-transed me first. I just didn’t have a term for it at the time.

Monkeygirl44 · 27/02/2019 21:16

Peaked this weekend!

Been happily skipping through life as a live and let live kind of person but felt the need to dust off my unused twitter account to find out why Martina Navratilova’s comments were transphobic as they just seemed like common sense to me. Several hours later I realised that the Dr who had “assigned” my sex at birth, from the spectrum of sexes on offer to him, had made a terrible mistake as I don’t seem to have a female penis which seems to be a prerequisite for being able to call yourself a woman these days.

I’m truly shocked that any attempt to question or debate these issues is immediately shut down with cries of transphobia, no recognition that trans rights impact women’s rights, no attempt to compromise. The media, universities etc seem complicit in this with no platforming the opposing views.

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/02/2019 21:20
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