Help a brother out

[Glinner]

Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

I will not forget how it was enabled by mainstream institutions and cultural forces (like the guardian)

Quite a few years ago now I was banned, along with many other women, from the Guardian, when they still used to have comments on articles about trans issues. They had (possibly still do?) several trans women mods who would expunge every single GC comment, no matter how mildly expressed. You literally were not allowed to ask questions or express dissent. The comments were page after page of TRA propaganda with huge swathes of comments blocked for 'transphobia'. Eventually I was banned altogether from commenting.

I can still recall the outrage and betrayal I felt - this was the 'left' and they were systematically stopping women from speaking on this issue. Fuck the Guardian. I've been waiting ever since for them to die.

And James Kirkup writing about how MPs come and whisper their concerns in his ear but won't go public.

^^ this. This gets me incandescent with rage.

Everything mirandayardley and Magdalen Berns have ever written/ vlogged.

Magdalen

I meant that I have been a child advocate since 1985. Typo new here and don't know if there is an edit button

Like so many pp, I was Guardian-reading and instinctively supportive of trans people, including of our niece who became our nephew. I did struggle to understand some of DS's female friends' saying they were gender fluid 'because some days they felt female and some days male' as I just feel 'me', but I always learned their individual specific pronouns and used them properly (it was complicated)

Then I took up the offer of a cheap subscription to The Times, and started to read, with horror, Janice Turner's columns on trans issues, especially the one about Maria's court case. I also noted that the Guardian almost never covered this, which gave me pause for thought.

So I moved my focus on MN from AIBU to Feminist Chat, and feel like I'm in the Himalayas sometimes - I've reached one peak, and then look, there's another, even higher/dafter one.

We have to keep on though. I have started to use Twitter, just to view, following a variety of people and haven't yet been blocked by Lily Madigan, so I can see just how trite they are.

Sadly my new nephew seems to be no happier as a man, than as a young woman and also now has Male pattern baldness.

[Interestingly, autocorrect on iPad allows female all lower case, but 'corrects' male to Male]

I came to this because my (young adult) lesbian daughter very suddenly announced she was non binary. Another 3 months on and she 'came out' as trans and started the process of medical transitioning from female to male.

She grew up as a happy, intelligent and talented girl/young woman. No gender non conformity. We were very close.

Changing her identity to a 'non-binary trans boy' came about at the end of several very difficult years which had tested her to the limit, both physically and mentally.

Her personality changed. She became secretive and withdrawn. She started behaving in ways we had never seen before.

Her trans identity is all consuming. She has a new 'gender queer' family now.

She will not tolerate any discussion or alternative opinions and has cut us off 'permanently' because she believes our concerns are 'toxic' and 'bigoted.'

If it happen to us it can happen to anyone.

So Glinner what are you planning to do with all of these stories?

Ordinarily we say "Down with this sort of thing" when an OP commences a thread but doesn't return. Any clue please?

Hi Glinner,
The thing which first made me sit up and take notice, was last October when McKinnon cheated their way to a World track cycling championship. At first I thought it was one, wind up story, but then found other articles.
I started a thread on a cycling forum, and was surprised at the number of people who were not bothered, or worse still supported the transwomen athletes competing against women.
Not long after that, after reading up more on the subject, particularly about self ID and the obvious safeguarding issues regarding women's spaces, I joined MN because this is the only place I can share views with like minded people.

The realisation that 'the cotton ceiling' was a thing. That women, lesbians, were fair game to be abused for not wanting to consider male-bodied 'lesbians' as sexual partners. That the whole gender identity thing renders every sexuality 'transphobic' because having a preference for a certain sexed body is now bigoted.

I would also add my blood boils up a notch for two other reasons since my awakening: the first is when I see that posts like BettyDuMonde’s have been removed because there’s a different standard that’s held to here on this board and because some member of the Monitors had hurty feelz and reported it.

The second is whenever I see the latest car crash moment of Jazz Jennings’ life - another operation required is the latest - and the fact that people are actively seeking this pathway for children to follow. Just what is wrong with these people?

I was in a Facebook parenting group where I was told (BY SOME VERY SHOUTY PEOPLE) that I should be teaching my preschooler that most girls have vulvas, and some girls have penises. This was to stop her growing up to be a bigot.

Just to add Glinner - Thank you. For all that you do and all the horrendous abuse that you take as a result and for not backing down.

I don't understand why you can see it but apparently practically no one else in the public eye can.

If it wasn't for mumsnet, GC twitter and the few men with a public persona like you and Jonny Best speaking out I would feel like I was slowly going mad.

MrPan Re your question asking Ginner what he is going to do about this thread?

Sometimes it is enough to let women speak. For our words to be heard and for people to think.

Does anyone know how to archive this thread? (I think that's a thing isn't it?). We need to keep this testimony of women being silenced.

Even after we get through this there will be something else and every bit of nonsense spreads like wildfire now with social media. The next lot of women need to know how we feel now

We need to work to shore up women's rights - proper legislation that is crystal clear and can't be undermined in this way again without alarm bells ringing.

Today in the news in America another trans man just burned his house up with his pets inside because he was not getting enough attention. They even started a go fund me for him with people being very upset after the truth of this hoax came out. Of course the legacy media never covers any honest stories about these things. Watch Donut Operator because he shows the videos of the body cams on the cops after twitter blows up over this stuff. Also watch Axe Truth you can speak openly there if you sign up to bitchute also sign up on Gab free speech is honored there along with bitchute. Lots of room for saying all of the things you have been denied

My original comment was reported by the watchers. MNHQ have clarified the only part they found problematic so I am reposting the original comment minus that. Feel free to message me @Glinner if you want the deleted part.

=========

I had a very slow build, more of a series of WTeverlovingF that built upon each other. Every grotty little stone I looked under was another one.

My position has been hardened by each instance, to the point where I now don't actually consider transgenderism as a real thing. The sheer level of aggression/malevolence these males fight back with makes me even more suspicious about the house of cards.

Being uncomfortable with your body, sure (and by that I do NOT include the thousands of teenage girls especially growing up in a porn-hyped, entitled, patriarchal society). But given no single person can "know" what another person lives and experiences life like, transgenderism is just a collection of assumptions and approximations. Which is then not much more than gender.

This is my second comment, because, actually, for me, it’s been like automatic gun fire - one shock after another in rapid succession - trans no longer meaning “transsexual” and having dysmorphia, but, in the case of trans women likely someone with male genitalia who just says they feel they are a woman; the girl guides trans girls sharing dorms with girls and parents having no right to know; male bodies in women’s changing rooms, lesbians being “transphobic” if they don’t want sex with a person with a male body (homophobic and misogynist in my day); the ridiculous, outdated, regressive idea based on gender stereotypes that a girl who likes “boy’s” stuff/clothes, and avoids dolls, dresses and pink could be a trans boy, and that a boy who is sensitive, likes dressing up etc is probably a trans girl; Brighton’s educational dept trans policies eg if a teenage girl doesn’t want to undress in changing rooms in front of a male bodied child, it’s her problem; watching David Davies mp debating GRA proposed changes with a handful of women who ALL thought there was nothing wrong with any of this; suppression of all dissent - either from women’s group, academics, Orwellian police investigation of people stating the dictionary, legal - and scientific definition of a woman; transwomen with male bodies towering over female competitors in sports, and winning trophies; children being set on the road to hormone treatment that may render them infertile, unable to enjoy a sex life at an age when they’re not deemed mature enough to drive, vote, drink alcohol in a pub; the arrest and detention of a woman for stating objective reality........

All of these things are dreadfully, scarily wrong. I am always ready to support anyone to live the life they want. I will recognise a trans woman as a woman, a trans man as a man. I will use their preferred pronoun. All have the right to live their lives without ridicule, abuse or violence. But I will NOT say that a trans woman IS a woman as biological fact. Not because I don’t want to, not because I am transphobic, but because it isn’t a correct statement. Nor will I support trans women who self Id and have not had surgery sharing women’s spaces. Nor trans women with the advantage of the muscle mass, bone density, pelvic structure inherent in a male body competing with women in sport. Nor children thinking that if they don’t conform to restrictive stereotypes, they need to transition with surgery and a lifetime of hormone treatment.

And finally, the sadness of the terrible division this causes. The hatred against “Terfs”, and the fear of people to articulate gender critical views. I have a friend who works in academia. I have known her for over 40yrs, best mates at school, friends through life, I am TOO SCARED to ask her her views on this, because I fear she may not be GC, and even if she is, I sense she cannot speak out because she would be pilloried. And it could DESTROY her CAREER. It is madness. It really is.

I would also point out this thread has certainly caused ructions with those site watchers, as they then decided to trawl through a week of my comments to try and get more removed.

It embodies that maxim about how if you are pissing people off, you must be doing something right.

It was Mumsnet that helped me make sense of it all even though I thought you were all transphobic bigots when I first start seeing posts on trans issues - Sorry!

To be honest, I'd started seeing things in real life and in online LGBT spaces which didn't make sense - and had encountered some problematic behaviour from transwomen - but I just pushed it to one side. They were an oppressed group, they were part of our LGBT community and the people opposing this (according to the sources I was hearing this from) were far right evangelical Christians. Comparisons were always drawn to gay rights and, if you didn't think about it too hard, it made sense. Because I've experienced a lot of problems and discrimination from being a lesbian, it's easy just to react emotionally and instinctively when a situation is compared to that rather than to really think it through. I also trusted the left-wing/liberal media to represent issues fairly and got my "facts" and opinions from there.

I finally came to my senses in 2016 and either things have got more extreme since then or I've become more aware of them (and actually, I think it's probably both.) Through 2017, other than writing to my MP, I was basically just online on Mumsnet finding out more and posting my outrage but not having any way to meet people in real life, not daring to discuss it with friends and not having any way of getting involved in campaigning on this issue.

Then in 2018, I went to my first Woman's Place UK meeting - which I was terrified about going to (due to the threats of violence, doxxing etc) but I was determined I was going to go. From there, I've joined real life feminist groups and become involved in actions around this and other feminist issues. I'm a very, very small cog in a movement that has blossomed over the past year or so but it's been incredible to see what women have achieved from nothing and in the face of such a hostile climate.

This has also changed my perceptions of the world more widely - I am seeing the real scale of misogyny and it is terrifying. I have also lost my faith in the liberal media (which I used to think were more trustworthy), in the left (I still consider myself left-wing but I don't trust 'the left' and despair at its misogyny), in most politicians, the police and public bodies. If someone had told me a few years ago (and there will have been a few feminists trying to tell us) that 'being nice to trans people'' would result in males competing in women's sport, the Ministry of Justice moving rapists - with intact penises - into women's prisons, that the police would swoop down on people stating facts on the internet and countless other crazy things - I would never have believed it. And that's half the problem because people just don't believe it can be this crazy until they see it for themselves.

Hi Glinner.

I'm based in UK and I was totally unaware of the debates surrounding this until very recently (I have you to thank for raising my awareness as I follow you on Twitter - not to sound like an arse-licker!), but I started to realise something wasn't right a few years ago. It's a bit of a long story which I posted elsewhere on here looking for advice to help my best friend.

She was married to someone who decided they were trans many years into their relationship. He was the first 'conventional' person she'd ever hooked up with. Her usual type were jobless druggies or weird conspiracy theorist hermit types (she used to be a bit of a druggie herself, but cleaned herself up and got a job). This guy was a well-respected, successful business man who had his own flat in a very expensive area. She moved in with him and we all thought she'd finally landed on her feet.

One day she phoned me up in tears telling me she was pregnant (unplanned) and she was terrified what he would say or do. Turned out he had been abusive (verbally and physically) to her in the past whenever she made plans to go out with friends or do anything which didn't involve him (this was the first I'd heard about this) and she thought her pregnancy news would not go down well. In fact, when she did tell him about it, he insisted she keep the baby and they could settle down as a family. They were, after all, both earning good money and could more than afford it. She was ecstatic and, despite the abuse, she went ahead with it.

Fast forward to a later stage in her pregnancy and she'd been tidying the house of clutter to make way for their new arrival. To her surprise, she found a suitcase of sexy lingerie and other women's clothes under the bed. Since it was not hers, she immediately suspected her husband of cheating and confronted him about it when he got home from work. He broke down in tears and told her he had a secret fetish for dressing in women's clothing and pretending to be a woman. He begged her to forgive him and insisted he was not gay, and doesn't really want to be a women: it's just a fetish. He said that he'd stop doing it and threw all the clothes away. She, of course, believed him.

A few months after the birth he'd become very distant and was refusing to help with the baby and housework, saying it was her 'job' as a woman (at this point she's on maternity leave from a very well-paid job in a career she's worked very hard to achieve since her shaky start in life). He also started insisting that she should give up her job entirely and become a full time stay-at-home mum, which she'd never wanted to do. Heartbreakingly, she agreed.

Despite this, she was not entirely naïve, and suspected his distant behaviour was because he was cheating. And so, she decided to search the house for evidence of some discretion. She discovered another suitcase hidden away in the wardrobe. Somewhat unsurprisingly, it was full of sexy lingerie and women's clothes.

After confronting him this time, however, he was not apologetic. He blamed her for not accepting him and forcing him to live a lie. This, despite the fact he'd never mentioned anything about it since he was discovered the first time. After days of arguing she ended up agreeing that they can work things out and that he can 'explore' this side of himself, but she insisted that she be a part of it and that he no longer hides it from her. He was very happy with this arrangement. And so, she painted his nails, did his makeup, and went clothes shopping with him for dresses.

It continued like this for a few months. Although she claimed it was working out, there was no sincerity in her voice when we spoke about it. I could tell she was miserable. And then one night it escalated. He came home drunk from a night out with 'the girls' (to which she was explicitly told she was not invited) and demanded she had sex with him while he was dressed in full drag. She refused. He forced himself on her anyway. This became a regular thing. Every conversation I had with her from then on was just her crying down the phone. But she wouldn't leave him. I felt completely helpless.

Eventually she ended up with a STD and confronted him about cheating. He admitted that he'd joined several dating sites to find gay men and MtF trans people to have sex with, and had hooked up with several over the past year. He then broke the news to her that he'd decided to fully transition into a woman and no longer wanted to be with her.

He threw her and their child out of the flat and, with no job and no money of her own, she had no choice but to move back in with her mum in a town miles across the country.

Afterward, she still saw him when she dropped off their daughter for visits (he never comes to pick her up, by the way). This eventually ended up in a row after a time he opened the door dressed as 'Abigail' (much to the shock of his daughter who had -until that moment- no clue he did this). He didn't even have the decency to discuss with her how they would tell their child about his transitioning. His reaction to being confronted with my friends (entirely justified) anger over this was to set up Facebook and Twitter profiles as his new 'persona' and to slag her off to all his newfound online trans community. Random strangers (many claiming to be MtF trans people) harassed her with emails and Facebook messages about what a bigot she was until she eventually deleted all her social media profiles.

Despite all this, she still visits him (for their daughter's sake, she says). She even drove him to the hospital for one of his trans-related appointments. And still he continues to treat her like a piece of shit for it and she's utterly miserable.

And all I saw, when I tried to look for resources on how to help someone in her position, were support groups for the trans people telling them how brave and beautiful they were. This amazing, bright, wonderful, confident women is now a complete shell of her former self and every 'woke' person is focussed on helping this awful man 'turn into a woman'. I felt so torn. I've been a left, liberal all my life. The "Trans Women Are Women!" mantra was a given for me. But this man was an abusive piece of shit and clearly had no respect for women at all, let alone have any clue what it was like to be one. I hated him. And it slowly sunk in from there that "Transwomen Are Women!" was a load of nonsense.

Reading this and Glinners Twitter thread has made me extremely emotional. And I’m not an emotional person generally. Yes to archiving.
Also a quick hello and a wave to those who have delurked on this topic. So good to hear you’re out there!

For me it was an extension of growing free speech concerns.

I am probably a small-state, small "c" conservative, who has a slightly Victorian attitude that people should have both opportunity and responsibility. (Octavia Hill rocks!) So found myself out of kilter with many of my woke Sarf London mum peers.

I was dying on my feet, as I was doing significant amounts of volunteering (mentoring a teenager, green space campaigning and helping run a sports club) working full time, managing rental properties, raising two children and looking after elderly parents, one of whom has had dementia for a decade, the other died of cancer.

Yet I was a bad person, ripe for criticism. First because I could not sing from the "oh Jeremy Corbyn" hymnsheet, but all sorts of other things. I was clearly racist because I was pretty neutral about Brexit, clearly fascist as I read the Mailonline (I used to read the Guardian but dropped it when it became steadily more sanctimonious - though subscribe to the New Yorker to give my brain a weekly stretch), and all sorts of digs about being a landlord, sending my children to private schools, using a private dentist, running a car and so on.

It felt really weird to be half dead trying to do the right thing by children, parents and society, yet clearly someone to be despised by people who were able to hang round being arty. (And oddly because I meet all sorts of workmen and carers etc, both in London and Dorset I suspect I was more in touch with the real lives ordinary people lead.)

I had spotted a couple of FWR threads on active, and just before the last election saw one on some silly anti-woman comments on a LibDem LGBTQ++ twitter feed. Unfortunately a nice elderly man from the LibDems turned up the next day to try to get my vote but ended up getting my views on why I would never vote for his party. In fairness the LibDem misogyny was news to him and something he promised to check.

The dam broke. No, I don't think TWAW, though have real sympathy for people like Fionne Orlander or RoseofDawn, or indeed going back a bit, Jan Morris, who are so articulate about their dysphoria. I don't think I should remain silent simply because my views don't accord with some Momentum dictated common view. (Which at times I found shockingly racist and bullying - lets all sign this petition to have a BBC political correspondent with a Jewish sounding name sacked, etc)

The next trigger was Venice and Linda facing a private prosecution. I may not agree with them but their right to say what they want to say is important. (I very deliberately brought along packets of Waitrose biscuits - I felt I should be who I am.)

The last few months have been a complete education. I have discovered all sorts of wise and brave people, with different backgrounds and different politics, but who are articulate, honest and intelligent. I have also been very shocked.

Free speech is vital. My £50 towards Posies poster was money well spent. Millwall, Leeds, Bristol, Manchester, the silencing is appalling.

But equally shocking is:

1. Mermaids and the championing of medical interventions in children. This has to be stopped.

1. The dismantling of safeguarding: Girl Guides; NAS, British gymnastics, refuges; prisons. What sort of society are we when we don't protect the vulnerable.

1. Sport. Performance, and also the pathways. If girls sport is not protected the most talented wont be able to break through.

1. The Stonewall tentacles. Stonewall is everywhere, yet Stonewall is a lobbying organisation aiming to promote one group in society to the detriment of others. Why won't our MPs speak up. What makes Pips Bunce so special. Why does a friend have to sit through Meg-John Barker when there are more pressing diversity/equality issues in her workplace than trans. Why have Stonewall been asked to draft so much public sector policy, including for the police, NHS, and schools, and where is the woman's voice. .

1. Why don't I count? I am relatively privileged and articulate. I would feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with people with a penis. Why do their feelz trump mine, or those less privileged such as teenage school girls. Why do others dictate what I am called: cis, Terf, etc. Why cant I just be a woman = adult human female. Why do Aimee, Lily, or Sophie Cook get to speak on behalf of women, rather than the many articulate and sensible women out there.

Oh, and I ditched my toxic friend. I guess she will just have to find someone else to look down on from her moral high ground. It was liberating.

It was Mumsnet that helped me make sense of it all even though I thought you were all transphobic bigots when I first start seeing posts on trans issues - Sorry!

So many people have done this, don't feel too bad.
Luckily TRA's always send people here to be educated.

I have also lost my faith in the liberal media (which I used to think were more trustworthy

Here's the thing, the same free speach and Press freedom laws that allow The Tabloid press to report on what object Elton John has stuck up his bum also allows them to report on real and important news, like which pedophile the libdems or green party have as School advisor this week.
(Before HQ swoop in these are fictious events)

It is one of the things that really got me to WTF mountain.

The years-long attempts at silencing women on Mumsnet. I genuinely thought they'd get bored after a couple of months. But no, they'll never stop.

Their end game is to ensure that the wider public does not find out about all of the characters who are hiding under the trans umbrella. And that's why they harass women on here.

These people must devote months of their lives to reporting posts on Mumsnet; that's how important it is.

Fortunately these extraordinary attempts at silencing just intrigue women to find out more.