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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stonewall champion School (primary)

51 replies

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 25/02/2019 08:41

I have realised that our local primary is a Stonewall Champion School after seeing the school letterhead..
I would be very grateful for any information (beyond what is on the website) about the content of their training course so I can decide whether to raise this.

I have few concerns about the teachers who are a wise quiet bunch. I am concerned that parents of a dysphoric child may become estranged from the school. I also note with concern references to the Equalities Act.

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R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 09:09

Jonny Best's recent article:
'What’s gone wrong with Stonewall'
(extract)
"Modern trans politics — and Stonewall’s trans policies — are centred on the concept of ‘gender identity’. Gender identity is the belief that we all have an innate sense of our own gender — that being a man or a woman is somehow deeply felt and part of our irreducible core. Trans people, according to this doctrine, have a gender identity which does not match their sex — a male who claims to have a female gender identity is a woman, and vice versa.

But there is a problem with this understanding of gender and many people (including me) reject it. To understand why, it’s helpful to remember that when we talk about gender we’re simply talking about sex stereotypes. Conventional binary gender divides us unto men and women, based on our biological sex. The categories ‘man’ and ‘woman’ are each attached to a series of social expectations, with ‘man’ hierarchically atop ‘woman’. ‘Masculinity’ and ‘femininity’ are the names we give to each collection of stereotypical characteristics. Men are aggressive, women submissive. Men build, women nurture. Men dress one way, women another. Gender’s strangulating tentacles get everywhere, restricting lives and twisting relationships. Gender, as it exists today, is not a good thing.

‘Gender identity’ takes these sex stereotypes and turns them inwards. Rather than seeing gender as something external to us, influencing and shaping us against our will, a gender identity is, its proponents argue, within us. What this means in practice is this: I’m a man not because of my biological sex, but because I identify with the sex stereotypes associated with being a man. A woman is a woman not because of her sex but because she identifies with the sex stereotypes associated with ‘woman’. It’s not hard to see why so many people (and not only feminists) refute the concept of gender identity as sexist and regressive.

Of course, those who believe in the concept of gender identity have a right to their view and to pursue a politics which arises from it. The problem with Stonewall’s trans policies is that they do not respect the freedom to reject belief in gender identity. In fact, modern transgenderism — as practiced by Stonewall — demands we all understand ourselves in line with trans ideology and pursues legislative change predicated on the existence of gender identity.

The root of Stonewall’s failure over the last five years is its endorsement of gender identity and its attempt to coerce society into accepting it. In order to see clearly the line that Stonewall has crossed, compare its definitions of homophobia and transphobia:

Homophobia is:

The fear or dislike of someone, based on prejudice or negative attitudes, beliefs or views about lesbian, gay or bi people.
Transphobia is:

The fear or dislike of someone based on the fact they are trans, including the denial/refusal to accept their gender identity.
Stonewall has written and promoted a definition of ‘transphobia’ which categorises anybody who resists belief in an idea as transphobic. Feminists who wish to uphold their understanding of gender as an oppressive, hierarchical system of sex stereotyping are labelled transphobic. At a stroke, every second wave feminist is a bigot — as Germaine Greer and Jenni Murray have both discovered.

This is not a progressive or even a constructive politics." (continues)

medium.com/@JonnnyBest/whats-gone-wrong-with-stonewall-1be30cffba9f

see also Times:today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-pioneer-criticises-its-transgender-extremism-pwc696ml5?shareToken=963b7a076613075adfee64ce81a63adb
(extract)
One of the founders of Stonewall has condemned its “extreme” position on transgender rights after its chief executive announced she was stepping down.

Simon Fanshawe, 62, one of the original 14 trustees in 1989 alongside Sir Ian McKellen, called on the organisation to listen to concerns about its campaign to amend the Gender Recognition Act.

Mr Fanshawe said: “It’s allowing this extreme notion of self-identification.”

Stonewall withdraws representatives from panels that include people who disagree with its stance on self-identification. “To say these issues aren’t debatable or that raising them is somehow transphobic appears to be the Stonewall position, rather than to build on the great tradition . . . of concentrating on the big principles of discrimination,” (continues)

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 25/02/2019 09:13

thank you. What I'm on the lookout for is any material about the contents of what is being said.

I'll keep watching out and bump the thread from time to time.

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Badgerthebodger · 25/02/2019 09:15

There is a transcript of a recorded training session somewhere (R0, can you help? Smile)

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 09:22

There's a recording of Mermaids. training, Im not aware of one of Stonewall's

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 09:23

Amoregentlemanlikemanner It might be worth asking on the 'In The Staffroom' board.

Badgerthebodger · 25/02/2019 09:23

Ah yes, not enough tea in me yet!!

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 09:27

For reference, this is the transcript of Mermaids' teacher training session from December 2018:

Imherefornow wrote:
"Here are the links to the transcripts thanks to a wonderful mumsnet collaboration. Share as you will smile"

docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

OhHolyJesus · 25/02/2019 10:29

Oh god, I thought Stonewall champion schools were only Secondary schools. How can his be challenged? Is this the Local Authority deciding this?

DS starts school next year and I'm waiting on the announcement to head teachers following the Sunday Times article yesterday, but I don't know how to approach this? I'm not sure I want to enrol him unless I know the contents of the lesson.

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 10:39

I'm waiting on the announcement to head teachers following the Sunday Times article yesterday, but I don't know how to approach this? I'm not sure I want to enrol him unless I know the contents of the lesson.

There is a lot to come out about the influence of TRA lobbyists.
It has already started with regards the pressures put on NHS GIDS,
Increasing numbers of medical professionals are raising Safeguarding and Duty of Care concerns. Head teachers and governors should pause roll out of aspects that are cause for such concerns.

Worth watching Panorama tonight
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3517199-R4-Today-about-the-Tavistock-report-resignation

zanahoria · 25/02/2019 10:47

It annoys me that a group that has no members thus no democratic input has gained so much influence. The corporations that fund Stonewall should not be judging schools and nobody should be suckered into thinking this anything but people with money purchasing undue influence.

zanahoria · 25/02/2019 10:50

I would also like to know whether the corporations that purchase that influence have any conflict of interest in promoting the trans agenda. Does Stonewall accept funds from Big Pharma that will gained from the promotion of transgenderism?

20nil · 25/02/2019 12:13

Could you tell us how this being advertised? School website or somewhere else? Do the Governors know? Who decided this?

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 25/02/2019 12:16

www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/get-involved-stonewall-research/education/tackling-homophobic-biphobic-and-transphobic

Here you go.
"Participating schools become members of our School Champions programme."

so I think that the teachers are just going on training... not realising what this implies.

The "champion school" logo is on the letterhead.

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R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 12:28

It annoys me that a group that has no members thus no democratic input has gained so much influence. The corporations that fund Stonewall should not be judging schools and nobody should be suckered into thinking this anything but people with money purchasing undue influence.

see important thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3488261-The-Financial-Juggernaut-that-is-Stonewall

LangCleg · 25/02/2019 12:36

Unless the school comes under the (limited) government funding criteria for free Stonewall training, it should be noted that the Stonewall courses cost £240 per teacher. Not an expenditure I'd recommend for cash-strapped primary schools.

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 25/02/2019 12:44

agree, but bear in mind that if the school did fund it it will have

  • been under the usual pressure to get "kite-marks" etc
  • acted in good faith out of a desire to help pupils who are being teased for being gay, etc.

My concern is that parents of gender dysphoric 11-year-olds will see the kite-mark and believe the school is on one side of an ideological debate.

Stonewall presents its primary school training as an entirely government-led affair and references the Equalities Act liberally.

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ChickenonaMug · 25/02/2019 14:32

From Stonewall' guidance for schools: "Toilets and changing rooms A trans young person may wish to use the toilets and changing rooms of their self-identified gender rather than of their assigned sex. Schools should make sure that a trans student is supported to do so and be aware that this is a legal requirement under the Equality Act. Schools should also support trans young people to use gender neutral facilities or a private space if that is what they prefer. The most important thing is to talk to the young person rather than make assumptions about the facilities they would like to use."

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/an_introduction_to_supporting_lgbt_young_people_-_a_guide_for_schools_2015.pdf

OhHolyJesus · 25/02/2019 14:49

All this 'assigned at birth', 'doctor gives them an identity' and stereotypes, for kids as young as 5! They won't question it, they will believe it. Kids look up to their teachers and frankly if I tell my son not to believe everything his teacher tells him it will undermine his whole early years education.

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 15:24

To teach that an individual has an innate 'gender identity' is ideological and disputed.

Its based in 'Queer theory' and trans activism. Many involved in the medical profession working to support people who identify as transgender would not assert this as a matter of fact for all people.

Just as all schools do not teach as fact that children have souls, nor should they teach that they have a 'gender identity' when this is not accepted or recognised by many parents.

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 15:27

My concern is that parents of gender dysphoric 11-year-olds will see the kite-mark and believe the school is on one side of an ideological debate.

As the concerns that have been raised by Tavistock GIDS and other professionals have identified both parents and teachers may assume and/or affirm a child's belief that they are 'gender dysphoric' when in actuality there may be many other things happening for the child.

HandsOffMyRights · 25/02/2019 15:41

I have the materials for secondary - and it's not pretty.

It's as eye popping and regressive as you'd fear!

stillathing · 25/02/2019 15:47

hands I have DMed you hope that is OK!

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 25/02/2019 17:42

hands, should I dm you?

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Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 25/02/2019 17:44

I just want to add that I would trust my child's life to these teachers. they have seen many a fad come and go and quietly got on with working to help all the pupils. Just because they don't argue back doesn't mean they've taken it all in unquestioningly.

however, as was said this morning on radio 4, a fad that advocates irreversible changes to a young body is something very different.

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Isitme13 · 25/02/2019 18:48

HandsOffMyRights

Is there any way you could share?

I have concerns about my dd’s (seemingly eminently sensible and down to earth, all-girls) school being a Stonewall Champion, but don’t know where to start wrt raising it with them...