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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

One Sided Rant from Paris Lees in Vogue

25 replies

Lumene · 24/02/2019 11:35

www.vogue.co.uk/article/life-changing-power-of-alexandria-ocasio-cortez

Completely misses the issues and wide range of voices deeply concerned about Mermaids, including academics, politicians, therapists, doctors.

OP posts:
MillytantForceit · 24/02/2019 11:41

"Graham Linehan – who has no medical or psychiatric expertise..."

Shocking!

IDoN0tCare · 24/02/2019 11:41

God knows what lack of humanity possesses people to target vulnerable children and their families

Yeah. That’s exactly why GC Feminists are concerned, Paris. We’re very concerned about TRAs targeting vulnerable children and young non conforming gays and lesbians. We wish they would stop using our children to affirm their own fantasies and as a means to harass females.

lottiebel123 · 24/02/2019 11:49

does Paris have a job other than professional TRA?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/02/2019 11:51

Oh I assumed it was going to be a rant about how women who don't enjoy street harrassment are dried up miserable prunes / jealous and should shut the fuck up

See it is a different topic will read later

HamiltonCork · 24/02/2019 11:52

Just thinking the same lottiebel. How do people like Paris manage to pay their bills? The TV appearances and writing can’t be bringing home more than £10k a year.

Floisme · 24/02/2019 11:52

I've not bought Vogue since they let Paris Lees gatecrash the women's suffrage feature.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/02/2019 11:53

Sorry women and girls (cunty) who don't enjoy street harrassment that should say

There's something wrong with women and girls who don't get a thrill from being sexually objectified poss in a threatening manner while trying to go abotu their busness

proper women love it

down with the cis they are womaning wrong time to hand over to the better breed

Whatisthisfuckery · 24/02/2019 11:55

Has PL been keeping their medical and psychiatric qualifications a secret then, seeing as though they’re so qualified to speak where Glinner isn’t?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/02/2019 11:55

just read opening bit but have to go out

paris less says they have a lot in common with cher

??????????????????????????????

OrchidInTheSun · 24/02/2019 11:57

Ah Paris! Paris is a journalist and professional shirker on celebrity tv shows.

Paris who tweeted something like 'If Mermaids had been around when I was a kid, then maybe I could have done things differently' which they then deleted when asked exactly what they would have done differently (not beaten up a bloke so badly Lees was sent to prison? Who knows?)

HawkeyeInConfusion · 24/02/2019 12:07

As an aside, I think I'm being trolled by the advertisers on here.

One Sided Rant from Paris Lees in Vogue
Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 24/02/2019 12:38

If mermaids had existed?
Or maybe if you had been allowed to be a gender non conforming child?
Or maybe if you hadn't been sexually abused?
Or maybe, or maybe.

For all the bs, the cat calling validation, the nonsense, I can't help pitying Paris Lees. A story so steeped in homophobia it's so so sad.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/15/transgender-coming-of-age-paris-lees

Floisme · 24/02/2019 13:06

I hadn't realised that Paris Lees is now a regular columnist for Vogue:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46398143

But then Edward Enninful (current editor) has made it pretty clear that his mission / brief is greater diversity.

I don't object at all to Paris Lees writing about clothes although I don't think our tastes could be less alike. But I'm Grin at the idea that I should be interested in her millennial life as a woman living in London.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/02/2019 13:19

how old is paris?

Floisme · 24/02/2019 13:22

A bit old to be calling themselves a millennial I'd have thought Grin

Freespeecher · 24/02/2019 13:50

My favourite AOC quote:

"If people want to really blow up one figure here or one word there, I would argue that they’re missing the forest for the trees. I think that there’s a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right".

Yep, can see why Paris is a fan!

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/02/2019 13:51

Can identify as a millenial though so no issues

Surely should be "life as a person who identifies as a millenial woman living in london"

if course you could live in slough and id as living in london

it's all a bit random really

DonaldTwain · 24/02/2019 13:56

Tell you what Paris. You can keep the pseudo science and the sexual objectification and women will keep working towards achieving the things that actually do bring them empowerment and self actualisation. Sounds like a bargain to me.

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 14:02

Paris Lees does not demonstrate an understanding of Safeguarding.

This seems to be a systemic failure amongst come prominant & influential TRAs including Aimee Challemor, Stephen Whittle, Suzie Green. Munroe Bergdorf, Tara Hewitt, Jane Fae etc

The actions of adult lobbyists who do not understand or respect Safeguarding frameworks intended to protect children and vulnerable adults should be identified as representing potential risk.

Adults who do understand Safeguarding and are working within its frameworks are whistleblowing their concerns:

Times article:
'Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children as activists pile on pressure'
(extract)
The report was compiled late last year by David Bell, then staff governor, whose role was to present staff concerns. It says some children “take up a trans identity as a solution” to “multiple problems such as historic child abuse in the family, bereavement . . . homophobia and a very significant incidence of autism spectrum disorder” after being “coached” online and by trans activist groups.

The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation. The report says the concerns voiced by staff are shared by Sonia Appleby, who is in charge of safeguarding at the trust.

Some youngsters were referred for puberty-blocking hormones — which are usually followed at 16 by cross-sex hormones causing irreversible change and lower fertility — after just one session, the report says. The trust denied this.

Examples of cases in the report include a girl from a family with a history of abuse of females. The mother’s anxiety about having a daughter was transmitted to her child, who resolved to change gender. Another girl felt “deeply guilty” after her brother died tragically, so she decided to give her parents “their son back” by changing gender. Some openly homophobic parents sought transition for their children because they were gay.

In other cases, uncomfortable feelings that are normal for adolescents are being “relabelled as to do with wishing to change gender, a position . . . which the service is unable to challenge”. Gids has “close relationships with organisations that are identified as part of the pro-trans lobby such as Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids, and [went] to some lengths to placate them,” the report says." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9

Stella O'Malley Twitter comment:
twitter.com/stellaomalley3/status/1099402782896017408

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3430608-Stella-OMalley-Trans-Kids-Its-Time-To-Talk

threads discussing senior clinicians whistleblown concerns re Safeguarding and Duty of Care failings within GIDS service:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515980-Times-article-Governor-quits-blinkered-Tavistock-clinic

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3516501-The-Gender-Identity-Development-Service-GIDS-report

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515980-Times-article-Governor-quits-blinkered-Tavistock-clinic

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516110-Tavistock-Governor-quits

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3510367-Tavistock-article-in-the-DM

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children

Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3497621-BMJ-article-on-LGBTQ-adolescent-safeguarding

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3497770-RC-for-GPs-scraps-GIRES-developed-course

One Sided Rant from Paris Lees in Vogue
Floisme · 24/02/2019 14:09

When Enninful was first appointed Vogue editor I was disappointed that they couldn't find a woman to edit a magasine read by women. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I could see why they might want to shake things up. But I noticed after the first few issues that Enninful, for all his talk of diversity, basically seemed to be hiring all his mates, and that all they seemed to know about was London.

As for Paris Lees, it might not be a bad thing if they have to come up with a column every month - if they're a one-trick pony it'll become obvious pretty quickly. And people who read Vogue tend to be in it for the clothes - I don't think they'll take kindly to being lectured.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/02/2019 14:12

i'm also AOK with paris writing articles about handbags and clothes and things which would be on message for vogue?

telling women on for not liking it when men shout shit at them on the street is unforgivbale IMO

it comes from a place of ZERO understanding how intimidating this is esp for younger girls

like PP says safeguarding is not a thing though children are imbued with the knowledge and desires of adults
one sex seems to insist this a lot more than the other than children know what they're doing when it comes to sexual matters etc and are knowing

others have extolled the vurtues of prostitution as a positive thing for trans teens underage

RockyFlintstone · 24/02/2019 14:21

Paris is an absolute pro at cherry picking, twisting, gaslighting and general disingenuity.

Floisme · 24/02/2019 14:29

I'm focusing on Enninful rather than Lees because he's the editor and he's the one who's hired Lees. He's yet another example of a man telling women what they should think.

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 14:54

Previous discussions about Vogue articles illustrating bias towards men's sexual rights and against safeguarding girls & women's rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2980781-Teen-Vogue-article

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3130281-UK-Vogue

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2972823-article-about-feminism-and-porn

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3418508-WTF-Teen-Vogue

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/02/2019 15:12

Wow to that tweet by Stella! So sad.

I know she's sometimes here. It must be so frustrating to be seeing all this happening in slow motion.

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