Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

Surely this is proved by the fact that transmen, f2m, never play against natural Born men as they don't stand a chance?
A lifetime of testosterone, bigger and better muscles and bone density can't be beaten by a transmen no matter what they may wish for.

There are rare examples of transmen who're successful in men's sport. Chris Mosier is one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier They're vastly outnumbered by transwomen winning in women's competitions, though.

My tiny brain just twigged that Martina's initials are MN

For me, that is unthinkable.
Must say that I read that as being opposed to puberty blocking drugs & cross hormone therapy YeahnahYeah. Night all. littlbrowndog’s generous round was a bit too much!

Love Martina. What a great article.

I agree that this is a great article and am also heartened by the tweets in support of Navratilova. She has long been someone I admire.

I also remember The Guardian, literally decades ago, doing a fucking hatchet piece on her when she started training under Richards. Don't bother searching because none of this is online. But they had a photo of her on the front page taken when she was firing an ace at someone during Wimbledon. Her hair was blown about by the wind and her face was taut. You could tell that it was a picture that was designed to show her as "unattractive". The write up was all about her "new" "more muscular" physique and how she had a coach who used to be a man. There were veiled references to her homosexuality.

I remember it quite vividly because I loved her at the time. I mean, really loved her. She was supremely talented, she was exciting to watch, she was intelligent to listen to and she was also humble.

I couldn't understand why a newspaper would present her in such a negative way. They didn't explicitly say it, but the underlying message was that her coach was trans, she was training intensely to have an athletic physique and she had sex with women, so therefore she was in some way masculine.

I've never forgotten it.

So for the guardian - the same fucking rag that wrote this hateful bilge about a top woman athlete - commenting on her hairstyle like it was fucking news ffs, calling into question her femininity when she was a woman - to be all wide eyed and "oh it's just so hatecrime and intolerant that we can't include women with penises in the definition of women" is looking glass world indeed.

In memory of the recently deceased Bruno Ganz, McKinnon’s current Twitter rant is crying out to be applied to the Hitler Rant meme.

Also on the McKinnon Tweet thread:
"incredible how many cis people in the comment section suddenly became science majors after seeing this tweet. All humans are Biological. Trans women are women. Trans women are biological women.
It's not rocket science, ovaries, uteruses, fallopian tubes or chromosomes. chill cis"

The denial is pathological. These people are sick with their delusion.

Martina

and for Hadley for this:
Hadley Freeman has tweeted "Solidarity with @Martina, a lifelong fearless champion of women, gay rights and fairness. A world class champion who overcame enormous homophobia and had a trans woman coach, she is what a shero looks like"

about 99% of the comments on the Guardian's FB for this article are in support of Martina as well

Oh the rage on McKinnon tweet thread.
What a traumatic day.
Apparently we can look forward to a radio 5 interview, prerecorded as we don't do live debate. Oh and apparently there's a direct line to Jack in case of offensive tweets.

It must have been exhausting having such a rage. Look forward to the interview. Keep an eye out for it folks.

Martina is a true hero. She has faced down homophobia and all kinds of bigotry in her career and she is a talented, tough athlete. Her article was fair and clearly thought out.

In stark contrast to McKinnon, who would be absolutely nowhere as an athlete without having transitioned. In fact, she would most likely be nobody, if not for her role as a bully for the trans agenda.

Martina's achievements and her bravery will stand the test of time. McKinnon's? Not so much...

All this about Twitter ‘fast track’ deletions is quite interesting, too.

I hope Meghan Murphy wrecks them in court.

If we can’t burn the witch, at least let’s have a go at getting her fired

Loving the Guardian FB page. One of the responses was if TW have an advantage in sport why aren’t they winning left, right and centre? My feeling on this is that TW are only just coming into women’s sport at competitive and visible levels so it just hasn’t gained visibility or traction yet. It’s a question of timing rather than there being no physical difference. Lauren Hubbard was expected to win at the Olympics but was injured and couldn’t complete the event. Does anyone have any views / data on this? It should be quite easy to counter.

Although I still can’t quite believe we are having to argue something so self evidently true.

McKinnon tweets: Damn, y’all. She sure holds a grudge. She also has NO idea what years of HRT does to some trans women’s sperm (i.e., eliminates the ability to make it after a long enough time

Interesting use of language for the Phd in Obfuscation and Lying. Can't bring themselves to say 'my sperm', it only happens to 'some' transwomen.

For interest, this is what Curt Schilling posted that was deemed transphobic and got him fired from ESPN [note: he has posted other things that have also been deemed offensive and it was probably cumulative]:

“A man is a man no matter what they call themselves. I don’t care what they are, who they sleep with, men’s room was designed for the penis, women’s not so much. Now you need laws telling us differently? Pathetic.”

Handay

Oh wow, that’s really terrible

callingdannyboy

Yes partly it’s new but also it just whether they win but making a comparison of how well the trans woman would have done in the male competition pre transition.

So the argument that MN beat Renée Richards three times is totally irrelevant to me because MN was arguably the best female player in the world and RR was not the best male player in the world. So all it means is an outstanding female player can beat an average male player.

The point is are trans women doing better in female competitions than they would be doing in male ones. If so they have an unfair advantage. TW don’t have to actually win for that to be the case.

Incidentally I don’t think Rachel McKinnon ever became a male world champion.

She's a downright hero for writing that article at this time.

Her take is interesting. She seems to feel that if you show yourself fully committed to transgenderism/transsexualism by having bits cut off, you're somehow proving genuine woman-ness and can compete. I wonder if she'd still say the same if presented with an individual who did have the surgeries and still massively outstripped their performance as a male. I can't immediately think of any? While the advantages do still hold, there are also disadvantaging factors in the consequences of the surgery itself that might balance them out to some degree/some individuals/some sports. Can't imagine for example wanting to cycle with that sort of wound.

It's a tricky place to draw the line. It seems to advantage/disadvantage on wealth for private medical intervention. It could also tip young people over the edge to have surgeries they might otherwise delay and eventually avoid, reading detransitioner stories those who didn't get as far as surgery have been devoutly thankful.

“if TW have an advantage in sport why aren’t they winning left, right and centre? “

The TW who are in sport are winning. RMcK, Fallon Fox, that weightlifter, the basketball player...

In the US it’s a problem in high school sports and athletics - remember a lot of kids get sports scholarships for college and the girls are just missing out now.

This was the tweet that got me last night. Hasn't Lily Madigan claimed the same thing? I'm live and let live about most things, if someone wants to be she/her that's fine, but I cannot ever stand here and agree that someone born with male genitalia is a biological woman.

if TW have an advantage in sport why aren’t they winning left, right and centre?

They are.
Virtually any male who competes in the women's category gets a top medal or breaks a record (or wins a girl's scholarship in the case of Andreya Yearwood who also broke the girl's fastest record at their school).
TW rarely come up, say 10th place or somewhere near the bottom, they are all top prize winners.