Bi-sexulaity currently taking a kicking over at the Guardigan

[Bebstar123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/14/the-pansexual-revolution-how-sexual-fluidity-became-mainstream#comments

"Nick, a 22-year-old physics and philosophy masters student at the University of York, initially thought he was bisexual as a teenager, but also now feels “pansexual” better fits his view that attraction isn’t really about gender. “I just find characteristics generally about people attractive"... a bi person might find tall guys attractive, and short girls. But he tends to fancy tall people, regardless of whether they are male or female.

As a bi sexual female who thinks gender is social BS, I had been under the impression that bisexuality related to both sex attraction. Apparently not, thanks random 22 year old bloke, thanks for sorting that out for me.

nauticant that's horrible! I hope you told them to fuck off and mind their own business?

Bi means only actual men or women.

No it doesn’t.
It means you are attracted to both male and female people.
Trans people still have a sex which is either male or female, therefore covered.

Yes I agree there are only two sexes but to me being pan includes trans people and folk who roll about in the middle somewhere. Bi means only actual men or women. Does that make any sense?

No, because there are two sexes. Even if you’re trans. there are only actual men and women.

The guy in the article is actually trying to claim that it's bi-people who are ruled by gender, by sweepingly claiming that bi sexual preferences are gendered eg. tall men, but small women.

I'll admit I've noted some bisexual men claiming that, but for the vast majority of bi men and women it's a sexual attraction based on chemicals, with added personal preferences. Just like everyone else. He's trying to claim that is the preserve of pansexuality while I contest it certainly isn't.

This is another example of the trabs ideology changing other people’s identities.

Bisexual has never meant ‘doesn’t fancy trans people’, it means you fancy people of both sexes.
Then someone came along and decided to create ‘pansexual’ and therefore for it to exist they had to change the definition of bisexual.

No, fuck off.

Calvinsmam do you know what, you're absolutely right 😂 I've only got my own experience and opinions to go off obviously but I'd be telling them to fuck right off if someone called me a pansexual.

There’s nothing in the description on bisexual that says you don’t fancy trans people there is in mine!

I think he has a right to label his sexuality however he feels.... but not other peoples.

I assumed people who say they are pansexual mean that they are also attracted to people who identify as non binary... so it's just a word to show that someone accepts 'non binary' as an actual sex.

It's interesting though... I mean is sexuality about gender or sex? I know some people dont think those things exist (I personally feel like gender doesn't really exist) but I can see that perhaps some peoples sexuality would be framed around gender rather than sex.
I'm sure there are people who are perhaps attracted to feminine societal expressions of gender, and they would be attracted to that regardless of genitals.... and I'm sure there are people who would not be able to feel attraction towards someone with certain genitals regardless of their gender expression...

So im willing to accept there are perhaps more sexuality labels than gay straight and bi....

Even though I do think there are only two biological sexes

I plucked up the courage to ask my woke teens to explain the difference between bi- and pan-sexual. These conversations are always a minefield and usually best avoided, but I genuinely wanted to hear their take on it and made a huge effort to listen properly and really try to make sense of it. Even so, I couldn't help saying, more than once, 'but if you have no genital preference surely it's just down to personality'. They rolled their eyes and sighed at my supreme ignorance.

(Apparently the key thing is that if you're pansexual you'd be open to relationships with transpeople too, as you're attracted to all sexes AND genders. I think that I - reluctantly - know more than they do about male lesbians and the cotton ceiling, and feel this is a sparkly rainbow-coloured oversimplification of ugly reality.)

Anyway, it boiled down to a fluffy confection of words and ideas that collapses quickly when exposed to logic. I came away with the feeling that it's just a youth attempt to rebrand sex in a way that suggests they invented it, and distance it from anything indulged in by their unfashionable old parents.

there is in mine
Yes but that’s just a personal preference not the actual definition.

I only like to shag tall indie boys with long hair and dirty Levi’s.
That’s not the definition one straight though.

I'm not saying any of this is facts by the way, only what I think of it all.

Men not boys obviously
That’s just what we’ve always called them in our circle of friends.

Yes I agree there are only two sexes but to me being pan includes trans people

So does that mean if you are bi, or gay or define in any other way, you must automatically exclude trans people? So a lesbian who is willing to sleep with a transwoman must actually be pansexual? And a lesbian wouldn't sleep with a transwoman, because she's not pansexual. Is that right?

Pansexual means you like all fenders

Most people have a preference for Telecasters over Stratocasters or the other way around, but they're wrong.

Alan Cummings describes himself as pan sexual. I took it to mean a tongue in cheek way of saying he'll shag anything that stays still long enough. It's fine as a self descriptor but ludicrous to expect others to take seriously or respect.

After men and women, there are no living things it's legal to have sex with. Bisexuality covers the lot.

Isn't it all just personal preference anyway? Just that a lot of people happen to have the same one so they stick a label on it. My definition of bi means attraction to two = male men and female women, no attraction to non-conforming or androgynous folk, that's included in pan

OldCrone nope, anyone can include whatever they want under whatever label they want, I'm only giving my personal opinion of it. Honestly I'm getting confused at this point anyway so I will only end up tying myself in knots if I carry on

Isn't it all just personal preference anyway? Just that a lot of people happen to have the same one so they stick a label on it.

Well yes. And no.
We stuck a label on it so we could communicate with other humans about our personal preferences. If we just change the definitions willy billy to suit ourselves then language doesn’t work and we can’t communicate as a society any more.

I'm sure there are people who are perhaps attracted to feminine societal expressions of gender, and they would be attracted to that regardless of genitals

There are. It's people with a fetish.

Yes AbsintheFriends in some contexts pansexual is another manifestation of the cotton ceiling, just sprinkled with gender identity glitter.

What fresh hell is the cotton ceiling?

Calvinsmam I'm going to have to make up a new one then. My definition of bisexual doesn't fit and if I say 'I don't like labels I'm just me' then I'd be a proper wanker 😂

Isn't it all just personal preference anyway? Just that a lot of people happen to have the same one so they stick a label on it.

This highlights a key point. Someone is welcome to label the world however they like. The problem comes when they stick the label on a person and then say to that person "because you have this label you have to think/behave like/do X, Y, Z, This is at the heart of why gender identity ideology is heading in insane authoritarian directions.

I'm going to have to make up a new one then. My definition of bisexual doesn't fit

But you CAN be bisexual and not fancy trans people. Being bisexual doesn’t mean you have to fancy everyone.

It just means you sometimes fancy male bodied people and sometimes fancy female bodied people, it doesn’t specify anything else about those people.

It’s perfectly reasonable to have preferences within that but it doesn’t change the definition of bisexual.

It’s perfectly reasonable to have preferences within that but it doesn’t change the definition of bisexual.

That makes perfect sense, it didn't even cross my mind! Might be something to do with this which also makes perfect sense:

The problem comes when they stick the label on a person and then say to that person "because you have this label you have to think/behave like/do X, Y, Z

So does that mean if you are bi, or gay or define in any other way, you must automatically exclude trans people? So a lesbian who is willing to sleep with a transwoman must actually be pansexual? And a lesbian wouldn't sleep with a transwoman, because she's not pansexual. Is that right?

I'm heterosexual but I would have no interest in a trans man. A trans man who still has a vulva and a vagina would be as repellent as a natal woman. A trans man with a prosthetic penis would be of no interest either.

I think pansexual might be useful to describe an individual who is happy to have sex with trans and non trans people of either sex. Most lesbians and most straight men are probably not keen on trans women with penises.

What fresh hell is the cotton ceiling?

It's comes from the fact that lesbians, being homosexual people, don't tend to want to have sex with transwomen, being male people. This reluctance needs to be overcome by nagging or coercion. Nag/coerce enough and eventually some lesbians will have heterosexual sex. At this point the cotton ceiling has been breached. (The term is taken from the "glass ceiling" relating to women not being able to break through into senior positions at work.)

The term and its meaning is so appalling that it's currently being redefined by trans activists to refer to it all being about trans people and how their sex lives are inhibited.

Most lesbians and most straight men are probably not keen on trans women with penises.

No, because they are of the opposite sex to the one they find attractive.

If they fancied people of both sexes they’d be bisexual.