man jailed after meeting 12 year old girl on a dating app who pretended to be 19

[BorneBackCeaselesslyIntoThePas]

Carl Hodgson, 27, brought the girl to his Manchester quayside apartment after he met her on a dating app - not realising she used a fake profile which claimed she was 'experienced'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6679531/Office-worker-spent-night-12-year-old-girl-jailed.html

It's always gratifying to come back to FWR after a short break to see a bunch of adults blame a child for an adult male's criminal behaviour. It's so retro and 20th Century

Its ironic how having overhead many a group of men in the pub or where I work, who crack jokes about not listening or not doing "what they are told " by their wives and girl friends. How they ignore the calls or leg it out so the wives can't hear the football on in the back ground and figure out they are in the pub.

So they don't listen, think its hilarious to ignore women and don't give a crap what they think or want them to do and go out of their way to do the opposite.

But yet it's their fault and they had no choice when their interaction gets them in trouble

Interested to know what people's views are if an underage girl GENUINELY looked 19/20. I'm not stating an opinion here. I genuinely want to know.

As a social worker, this girl's behaviour tells me that she has already experienced repercussions.
12 year olds don't go on dating apps and lie about their age and hook up with older men unless they've already been exposed to sexual abuse.

This. Nearly everything they're describing about her behaviour screams to me that she's likely already been abused/assaulted.

If we had a culture where men and women who were "hooking up" asked for ID before anything happened, this wouldn't happen as much.

If we had a culture where "barely legal" and "first time" "teenage" porn wasn't the norm, men might have a more realistic expectation of the difference between a "mature" 12 year old body and a 19 year old one

Notonthetelly, sex with an under 13 year old is rape by law. There is no consideration of consent, because they are too young. At work, we have a legal duty to inform the police of any under 13 who has had sex because statutory rape is very much a thing.

The facts as presented make me uncomfortable, but largely because I lean towards punishing intention rather than outcome (I think drink driving is the same whether you hurt someone or not, trying to have sex with a child makes you a paedophile whether you succeed or not). On the surface - aside from the texting which is awful - he did nothing lots of other people do. My sister looked convincingly over 16 at 12 and was bright enough to come across as 16 during casual conversation. The consequences are extreme for what he appears to have knowingly done.

That said, I'd rather have this situation than the case in America where a 67 year old man paid a 12 year old for sex and the judge called her the aggressor. If this is a step too far, at least it's on the side of protecting vulnerable children rather than excusing child abuse.

I hate to think what that girl had gone through before that her mum was sleeping downstairs to stop her sneaking out.

To those who believe she should be punished / not get away with it.

This is in the article:
"'I noted in the victim personal statement of the mother which I have read, she speak of how her daughter is in a withdrawn state, her lack of cooperation and her silence. The statement from the social worker which I have read, speaks of the complainants guarded nature and her unwillingness to discuss events and her part in this case.

'It's inevitable, she will suffer in the long term as a result of your offending.'"

It is likely that her behaviour at age 12 is a symptom of previous abuse.

For punishment, no-one knows what her family have done around this. The tone of the comments reads that it should be some kind of official sanction that she receives.

I'd be interested to know what you have in mind.

Signing the sex offenders register?
Young offenders institute?

I am also confused by posters talking about girls they knew behaving in certain ways at 15.

Another poster mentions 14.

12. She was 12.

Talking about older girls as if 14 or 15 are the same as 12 is an attempt to obfuscate just how very young she was.

"Notonthetelly, sex with an under 13 year old is rape by law. There is no consideration of consent, because they are too young. At work, we have a legal duty to inform the police of any under 13 who has had sex because statutory rape is very much a thing. "

No it isn't

have you read the law

Rape is rape it is non consensual

The crime you are thinking of is called sexual activity with a child under 13

If there is no suggestion of force / coercion, the crime is sexual activity with a child under 13. Which is what he was found guilty of.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/9

We are not the USA. Why do so many people think we have a crime of statutory rape? We have no such law.

Rape is rape - in UK law non consent is key

I am also confused by posters talking about girls they knew behaving in certain ways at 15.

The one I posted about was 13, and our group of 22 - 26yo females and males were shocked when we found out.
But I'm inclined to agree with a PP that possibly this girl didn't pass for 19, and that's why his sentence is what it was.

Ah reading on I see that you feel uncomfortable about this case

Which may explain why you are keen to assert that a charge of rape against him would have meant "statutory rape" which is not a thing.

Rather than "rape rape".

Minimise minimise.

All this 13 / 14 / 15 stuff

Under 13 in UK it's supposed to be "no excuses". As in, there is no defence.

And yet over and over we see judges saying of girls aged 11 / 12 Oh well she did look older.
This is inappropriate. As under 13, in law, there is NO excuse, even "she looked older m'lud".

Me and my friends had sex by 13, my friend was going into the city on the train at 13 to meet men. In certain areas and groups it is not uncommon. When you’ve not grown up in a bubble of love and money. Myself and friends who were having sex from younger were definitely the poorer ones who’s parents were at work or out all the time and we could go out and meet older people. Although that may well not be the case these days and could’ve been a coincidence.

I don’t think she should go to prison or anything like that, I think she should receive a social media ban until 16 or have to declare any relationships to the police until then or something like that.

We were on holiday a few years ago, DD was just 13. We were around the pool, and watched this adult (early 20s) approach and start chatting with her, we were keeping a very very close eye on this, she pointed over to us, he came over to ask if she could go to the onsite nightclub that evening; I thought he was going to faint when DH stood up and told him she was 13. He spluttered an embarrassed apology, and gave us a wide berth for the rest of the holiday.
This was the year after she was in tears, and very worried when the waiters were chatting her up.

"I don’t think she should go to prison or anything like that, I think she should receive a social media ban until 16 or have to declare any relationships to the police until then or something like that."

OK well that's honest.

I'm really fucking glad you aren't running our criminal justice system.

Hadalifeonce he was obviously a genuine and decent young man if he cans to you for permission. So here is an example of a genuine 20 something really believing a 13 year old was 16/17 years old. Your Dd was obviously not acting inappropriately or she would not have pointed you out for him to ask permission. This was clearly 2 normal and decent people who had no idea. This is why I asked earlier. What actually is the view of a young person GENUINELY looks older.

"This was clearly 2 normal and decent people who had no idea."

Which was 2?

The man in the story and the man in the news?

Do you think people that lie should just get away with it then?

What if it was the other way round and it was a boy that had lied and said he was older to get a woman to sleep with him?

Do you think she should go to prison and lose her future and he shouldn’t even get a slap on the wrist?

She is 12. She is a child Sea. She tried her hardest to protect him - she told the police he had no idea he wasn't 19. And the police prosecuted anyway because it is incumbent on adults to make sure they're not having sex with children.

And yes, that cuts both ways.

If you follow your link and look up rape of a child under 13, you will see that the definition is sex with a child under 13. It does not include consent (it lists 2 points, the activity and the age, rape of an adult also lists consent). This is how it is implemented in practice. As I mentioned, at work we have a legal duty to report sex involving under 13s because it is always rape and we have been involved in prosecutions. Perhaps the term 'statutory rape' is incorrect but he would have been charged with rape regardless of whether he believed he consented.

I'm not being an apologist. It's an important distinction and relevant to the discussion. There is no suggestion he thought the activity was non consensual.

1. Wow. The criminal justice system in not there to punish children who tell lies.
2. Interesting. You think that women who don't think the girl has done something wrong WOULD want a 12 year old boy who lied about his age in a situation similar to be punished by the criminal justice system. You think that posters on here who don't think a TWELVE year old girl who is likely a victim of previous CSA should be punished because a 27 year old man performed a sex act on her and photoed her naked, WOULD want to see a 12 yo boy punished for the same.

Your mask has slipped my friend, it always does with stuff like this.

And the final point reiterates that you think the women on here are man-hating harpies who think women can do no wrong:
"Do you think she should go to prison and lose her future and he shouldn’t even get a slap on the wrist?"

No I don't think that.
The fact that you have written it shows you for what you are though >> no friend of women and girls.

He was 27, she was 12. He knew he had a very much younger person in his flat. He then sent an indecent image of her to his friends, claiming sexual contact and said she was filth. They drank one alcoholic drink, another part of the article uses the word 'drinks'. She refused to give much information about the encounter and was guarded about the event.

As it is, she is being accused of ruining this man's life. Had she claimed sexual intercourse, she would have been subjected to a much more complete character review questioning her clothes and previous behaviour.

If he had bought her a drink in a pub, he would have been obliged to ensure she was of legal age. Sharing of indecent images without consent is a crime, regardless of the age of the person involved. His defence that it was not an intention to commit an offence is laughable. Sharing indecent images of children is a crime which is indefensible.

Littletabby if there is no suggestion of coercion etc then they get charged with sexual activity with a child under 13 which carries a max 14 year tariff.

This is what he was charged with.

If you are suggesting that men in the UK get charged with rape when there is no suggestion of non consent then that is very different to all the info I have had around this in the past.

If rape is the charge for penetrative sexual activity with a child under 13, then why do we have a separate offence for penetrative sexual activity with a child under 13? That makes no sense.

I also am sure that IF rape were used in the UK to prosecute cases that included no force or coercion then we would have heard of it a lot as it would totally undermine our laws about rape.

Sorry didn’t realise this was feminism or I wouldn’t have posted. Any debate here is shut down as ‘no friend of woman’

I’m out.

Also I believe consent isn't mentioned because they CAN'T consent - meaning it is automatically non-consensual. In the same way that sex with an unconscious person is rape because they can't consent, rather than because they said no. It is not minimising, its correcting the ridiculous notion that a 12 or 11 (or even 5 or 6) year old girl could ever be the 'pursuer'.

""Do you think she should go to prison and lose her future and he shouldn’t even get a slap on the wrist?"

No I don't think that.
The fact that you have written it shows you for what you are though >> no friend of women and girls."

Or yes maybe :D hard to parse

If it were reversed the woman should go to prison for sexual activity with a child under 13 and the child should not be punished but should be supported & there should be questions around whether there is previous CSA and looking for the perpetrator/s if there is.

Your idea that the women who think this man got what he desvered and the criminal justice system should not be acting against the girl, would not say that if it were the other way around, shows up what you are really here for and how you really think.

You think women who think the outcome is fine are biased against men.

Littletabby I think we are sort of in agreement

However my understanding is that as he was charged with rape AS WELL AS sexual activity with a child under 13 that the police and CPS had ideas that non consent may have been involved. Other cases like this in the news the men have only been charged with sexual activity with a child under 13. Not rape as well.

We do not have statutory rape in the UK. That word is not used.