Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

RC for GPs scraps GIRES developed course

104 replies

CallingDannyBoy · 03/02/2019 08:36

Does anyone have a share token for this?
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/training-guide-pushed-gps-to-endorse-gender-swaps-0v28x07v8

The Royal College for GPS has scrapped an online course developed by GIRES and available on the RC website. It cites GPs with no or limited experience of transgender patients wishing to transition being reluctant to prescribe drugs because they do not have sufficient training and experience. The RC removed a reference to Mermaids as a defence or resource point in the training and GIRES objected to this.

This is a good step forward - growing unease with Mermaids and GPs ding uneasy with being asked to prescribe treatment they are not comfortable with. GIRES are painting it as denying treatment to transgender patients.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Anlaf · 03/02/2019 08:41

Can't do sharetoken but came to see if this had been posted.

Gires paid the college £7,837 to host the course on its website.

(Shock)

But the two fell out after the college made changes to the course without informing Gires. The college objected to the charity Mermaids, which supports transgender children and their families, being recommended for referrals, saying: “Delete Mermaids from the list of people to use for support and just use Gires. Mermaids have become very controversial.”

CallingDannyBoy · 03/02/2019 08:53

What happened to autocorrect should be reference not defence

OP posts:
VovoBickie · 03/02/2019 09:04

"Gires maintains it is “becoming ever more apparent that 5% of the population [or 3.3m people] are gender-diverse”

What!? Are they saying 5% of ppl are trans?

CallingDannyBoy · 03/02/2019 09:05

Thanks Errol

OP posts:
MarciaDidia · 03/02/2019 09:07

WTF is "gender diverse"? Surely if you strip out dysphoria, which we are told is not essential to being trans, then "gender diverse" just means you don't conform to stereotypes?

ErrolTheDragon · 03/02/2019 09:08

Do they actually define what they mean by 'gender diverse'?

If they mean 'gender nonconforming' then sure... but the vast majority of those require no medical treatment whatsoever.

Gametedescrition · 03/02/2019 09:08

Playing with language again Shock

Iused2BanOptimist · 03/02/2019 09:15

Hopefully this is the beginning of the push back and return to common sense.

The cold shouldering of mermaids is heartwarming.

Oxytocindeficient · 03/02/2019 09:16

Delete Mermaids from the list of people to use for support and just use Gires. Mermaids have become very controversial.”

This is good!

ChattyLion · 03/02/2019 09:18

Royal College of GPs Flowers thank goodness for some evidence based thinking and proper medical duty of care for patients. Well done. The NHS and rest of the public sector now need to think carefully about why anti-facts, homophobic and misogynistic political lobby groups with no experience in safeguarding or health care are forcing them to change normal safeguarding and clinical evidence based policies...

This:

The college said it was simply trying to protect GPs from feeling that they were under pressure to prescribe hormones to trans patients, and that some GPs lacked expertise in such a complex area.
“It is also important that we only prescribe if we are happy that safe monitoring is in place,” its documents warn.

R0wantrees · 03/02/2019 09:28

"Gires, which shapes public attitudes with factsheets for schools, said it “could not agree to changes made in direct contravention of NHS and General Medical Council guidelines, and give GPs excuses to deny access to healthcare for transgender people”.

Gires maintains it is “becoming ever more apparent that 5% of the population [or 3.3m people] are gender-diverse”. By contrast the Government Equalities Office estimates that 200,000 to 500,000 people are defined under the term “trans”.

As the article explains, GIRES has had considerable influence.

Datun wrote Wed 07-Mar-18
GIRES seem to be very heavily invested in promoting treatment to children.

Like all the trans-pressure groups, they are evangelical about transgenderism.

Lily Maynard, whose child detransitioned, says:.

*GIRES (the Gender Identity and Research Society) has a very impressive sounding name but is neither a professional organisation, nor one with an academic foundation. Like others, it was set up by the parents of a transgender child. GIRES wants to teach ‘gender theory’ to children as young as two, and it seems that the teachers’ union is on board with this. Never has the acronym ‘NUT’ seemed so appropriate. GIRES is sending ‘gender experts’ into schools to fill the heads of kids with the notion that being ‘trans’ makes you a ‘special penguin’ (See the booklets here and spot the bad grammar.)

GIRES tells teachers that that such snowflakery should be rewarded with a cake or a party. This can only serve to confuse kids young enough to believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. GIRES is quite candid about its desire to teach small children about transgender ideology “before children’s views become influenced by the prejudices of the adults around them”. This is an astonishing admission of the wish to influence very small children’s thinking about issues they can’t possibly understand. The result of one such talk in a primary school was discussed on another mumsnet thread, where a parent – who had not been told the talk was going to take place- reported on her children’s response. Her eldest told her “you can choose whether to be a girl or a boy and you can take hormones to change…” whilst her youngest told her they “couldn’t decide whether to be a boy or a girl… and wanted to know what medicine to take.”*

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/11/08/when-is-a-girl-not-a-girl/amp/

Gendertrender has analysed quite a bit of what they have said. Amongst other things, the outrageous claim that transitioning can cure autism:

^"Anecdotally, young people who have been successfully treated, are often described as having no residual ASD [Autism Spectrum Disorder]. The symptoms have disappeared once the dysphoria has been treated."

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=GIREs&submit=Search

I've seen some of their promotional material, and it's incredibly cult like. I would avoid at all costs. If you want to learn about how to address this issue for children, Transgendertrend has their own schools guide, which is balanced, rational, and most of all calm."
from thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3188145-anyone-know-the-gender-identity-research-education-society-gires

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3389255-Could-any-one-tell-me-about-Gires

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3322310-gires-school-resources

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160730-GIRES-Dsyphoria-Training-for-GPs

R0wantrees · 03/02/2019 09:33

NB the link above to GenderTrender is broken as their site was targetted and taken down from WordPress.

(I think it may be hosted elsewhere now but am not sure.)

R0wantrees · 03/02/2019 09:35

background to GenderTrender being taken down from Wordpress:
4thwavenow.com/2018/11/17/wordpress-dumps-gendertrender-gallus-mag-responds/

ChattyLion · 03/02/2019 09:37

This RCGP decision is really good news- there are about 33,000 GPs in England alone so that is a key health care community to be supported by their professional body not to stray into political prescribing even while the NHS is being targeted to do so. GPs are already extremely (and increasingly stretched) in their work so straightforward guidance is really welcome.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/gp-topics/employment/nhs-has-lost-1000-gps-since-jeremy-hunt-set-workforce-target/20036703.article

ChattyLion · 03/02/2019 09:44

Sadly there have already been deletions of excellent fact-based comments under this Times article. Someone is rattled.

Iused2BanOptimist · 03/02/2019 09:46

Someone is rattled
And wait til Fanny who is on a twitter break to NZ hears about this....Grin

CallingDannyBoy · 03/02/2019 09:48

This has been a long time coming - hopefully they will push for a medical and evidence based treatment protocol.

OP posts:
GerryblewuptheER · 03/02/2019 09:49

Wow.

This really shouldn't be news though. Surely gps routinely look into who they take advice from and have said no many a time?

The fact this makes it as far as an article shows what a tight hold these services who are not even remotely medical.or evidence based have over everyone.

It's scary.

No one would see a plumber ro seek legal advice. So why are people sign posted to organisations who have protocols based on validation their own decisions

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 03/02/2019 09:51

Yes, mermaids certainly and GIRES probably, have crossed the line between advocating for trans people to actively promoting transition.

Susie Green said ‘being trans is not a negative outcome ‘ and mermaids seem to feel that it’s important that many children have that outcome

R0wantrees · 03/02/2019 09:54

DrEm analysis of GIRES claim that 84% trans youth attempt suicide, used by Guardian etc
gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/1048129628454494208

RC for GPs scraps GIRES developed course
RC for GPs scraps GIRES developed course
RC for GPs scraps GIRES developed course
Thingybob · 03/02/2019 09:54

5% gender diverse now? I guess the percentage is dependent on how tightly gender norms are defined so if those definitions become even more stringent in future we could see 50% or more of the population being gender diverse!

GerryblewuptheER · 03/02/2019 10:00

I'm sure it's been revealed on Twitter that googling case studies turns up about three cases. One of which is the case of someone who's parent transitioned .

If all these people were killing themselves why don't we know about it?

OldCrone · 03/02/2019 10:15

“Delete Mermaids from the list of people to use for support and just use Gires. Mermaids have become very controversial.”

The surprise here is that they don't also see GIRES as controversial, with their stated aims including teaching children that they can change sex before their parents and teachers get the chance to explain to them that they can't.

R0wantrees · 03/02/2019 10:20

GIRES advice for young people signposts to TransWiki:

"Finding a community

For all of us – perhaps especially so when we are feeling low, anxious or stressed – it can be very helpful to have a supportive network of people around us. Many young people who come to this service speak about the support they have gained from social networking and other online sites or resources, which have helped them talk to other trans people (see the 'Staying Safe Online' section below).

We also think it is important to make face to face connections with people in a similar situation. There may be local LGBT or other youth groups in your area, school or college – and organisations such as Gendered Intelligence hold regular meet-ups in cities around the country. If you are under our service, then we run a regular young peoples’ group that everyone can attend.

A good resource for finding groups across the UK is TranzWiki: www.tranzwiki.net You can also find out about groups by searching online, asking at your school or college or CAMHS, or speaking to your clinicians at the Tavistock Centre. You may even want to set up a group yourself!"
www.tranzwiki.net/

Yesterday I read a very concerning article about a trans youth group in Canada which had clear Safeguarding failings and exposed vulnerable teenagers to risk from predatory males.

It seems increasingly clear that there are significant numbers of influential adults within the transgender community who do not understand and/or respect established Safeguarding principles which should serve to protect children and Vulnerable adults
It is a systemic failure,

"My Trans Youth Group Experience with Morgan Page
Posted on January 26, 2019
by GNC-centric

GNC-centric is a detransitioned dysphoric lesbian. She lived as a trans man for most of her teen years in Canada. For many of those years she attended book readings and lectures on gender and LGBT events, and studied queer ideology. She now uses social media to speak critically about the harms she witnessed and experienced as a member of the transgender community.

I first met Morgan Page in 2012 at a conference for Gay-Straight Alliances from high schools in the greater Toronto area. Though I’ve since detransitioned, I identified as trans at that time, but I didn’t know any trans people in real life, only online. Morgan was a super nice, friendly person and invited me to the youth group she ran at The 519 in Toronto (LGBT Community Centre). Most of the time, the Trans Youth Group attendees were majority MTFs and “nonbinary” (NB) males. There was an upper age limit (somewhere between 21-25) but it was a pretty small group, usually fewer than 10 people; so when people aged out they just stuck around. I guess others learned that the age limit wasn’t being enforced because more and more older (30-40 year old) MTFs started to join.

I remember one day, there were three MTFs over 40 who were hitting on the teen FTMs, very explicitly. It was obviously making us uncomfortable, but almost no one ever said anything, only changed the topic or tried to engage them in a conversation away from us. (continues)

It was very common for the group to discuss the logistics of sex before and after SRS, kinky sex, and erotic fanfiction. I remember Morgan asking the three teens in the room, including me, if we were comfortable talking about this, but obviously we weren’t going to say no now that the conversation had already been started by these older people. I know of at least three FTMs who entered into relationships with older MTFs while in this group, all of which seemed very unhealthy to me. To me, FTMs under 18 dating or sleeping with (usually kinky) MTFs over 20 seemed very sexually exploitative. Healthy boundaries between adults and minors were foreign to this group, much like in the greater queer and trans community.

Morgan didn’t present herself as someone to emulate, but as someone to share her trans experiences with us. She spoke of her time as a teen prostitute, her SRS, her art, her writing, and her connections in the queer community. I think most of the teens saw her as someone to just give us advice and support, since she could recommend which clinics or doctors to see to start HRT and tell you what you needed to say to doctors so they’d sign off on SRS. She’d talk about what to expect after SRS. She knew the MTF side personally, but she also was intimate with a fair number of trans men so she told us about the FTM side too. At the time, to me, she seemed like the magic key to accessing all the medical transition resources I wanted. This was a trans support group, so one might assume this was normal—and it may have been for such a gathering—but in retrospect, I find elements of this concerning. (continues)

4thwavenow.com/2019/01/26/my-trans-youth-group-experience-with-morgan-page/

What Safeguards are in place to ensure that the UK groups that GIRES are signposting vulnerable young people to do not present similar risks as the Youth Group described above?