RC for GPs scraps GIRES developed course

[CallingDannyBoy]

Does anyone have a share token for this?
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/training-guide-pushed-gps-to-endorse-gender-swaps-0v28x07v8

The Royal College for GPS has scrapped an online course developed by GIRES and available on the RC website. It cites GPs with no or limited experience of transgender patients wishing to transition being reluctant to prescribe drugs because they do not have sufficient training and experience. The RC removed a reference to Mermaids as a defence or resource point in the training and GIRES objected to this.

This is a good step forward - growing unease with Mermaids and GPs ding uneasy with being asked to prescribe treatment they are not comfortable with. GIRES are painting it as denying treatment to transgender patients.

Do you think that schools will drop them now as well if drs are pushing back?

What happens to the kids who have been pushed to think there is something wrong with them because they hate pink and want to play rugby , only to get to the appointment and be told none of what the were told would happen, happens?

Isn't that leaving kids on a worse position than before?

Excellent news! Massive thanks to the Times for this reporting and to the RC of GPs for taking this step.

It seems public pressure may have played a small part in leading to this? After all, it's Mermaids that is mentioned specifically in this article and they have had media coverage, but the medical profession need to really start critically reviewing the advice given by all the trans lobbyists, including GIRES. So please keep talking and asking questions. As sad as it sounds, I do think doctors have been going along with this to keep some "woke credentials" without actually thinking things through or remembering basic principles.

Do you think that schools will drop them now as well if drs are pushing back?

Department of Education /Schools etc should be encouraged to scrutinise GIRES in the same way that the Royal College of GPs has done.

GIRES promotes medical transition as a "cure" for being gender non-conforming, as a positive thing. Hopefully GPs are pushing back now that more and more teenagers are turning up in their surgeries believing they have been born in the wrong body.

Now GIRES and Mermaids need to be correctly identified as evangelical ideological organisations promoting beliefs, not science.

The Sunday Times also today continuing to investigate the role of social media in teenage suicide and self-harm, predominantly among teenage girls.

Now someone needs to explore the link between social media and the rise in teenagers seeking to transition, and the fact that this too may be a form of self-harm - NOT a path to an "authentic self" as promoted by GIRES and Mermaids.

One would hope but they clearly aren't

And hasn't stone wall just been granted funding to go do training in 100 more schools?

Given primary schools have mixed pe, they change in mixed groups till yr 4 at least, so the only changes "necessary" would perhaps be toilets, how no one can see that they basically wannabe get their claws into 9, 10 and 11 year olds who are just starting to develope.....

It's so obvious. And these head teachers went to university didn't they? One that didn't have all this no platforming they do now.

For the GPs who are feeling under pressure to prescribe, this will be a welcome intervention.

Isn't that leaving kids on a worse position than before?

Well, if they go and see a doctor who says there is nothing wrong with their personality or body, then one might hope it's reassuring for the child? Like, don't worry you are completely fine and beautiful as you are, you don't need a lifetime of medication or any life-altering surgery? I can't imagine the distress of being a child and having one's parents and professionals validate the notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with you - that your "soul is trapped in the wrong body."

Also, children could be referred for mental health or other support for any feelings of depression or distress. I wish mental health services had better funding and much shorter waiting times. That's where the money ought to be going, IMHO.

Personally, I'd quite like the idea of supportive groups for gender non-conforming kids where there was absolutely no mention of needing to fundamentally change one's body to match a personality or toy preference. Just girls in coveralls building awesome robots or boys in tutus dancing, being cool and accepted for who they are without any medicalisation or pathologising these behaviours as being incorrect for their sex.

Well, if they go and see a doctor who says there is nothing wrong with their personality or body, then one might hope it's reassuring for the child? Like, don't worry you are completely fine and beautiful as you are, you don't need a lifetime of medication or any life-altering surgery? I can't imagine the distress of being a child and having one's parents and professionals validate the notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with you - that your "soul is trapped in the wrong body."

Well obviously that's the case. But you can't guarantee the child will see it like that. Not when perhaps their friends are also telling them it makes sense as they like X Y Z and that's what boys/girls do.

Aren't there organisations also the ones that they call up when everyone else turns them away?if the dr tells them there's nothing wrong with them that will just push them to have these groups and their followers as the only source of support...

They shouldn't get allowed within 100 miles of children.

Its possible that the issue with regards GP's guidance was the push from some TRAs (including Dr Webberley GenderGP & some parents at Mermaids) for GPs to provide 'bridging prescriptions' for puberty blockers whilst a child was waiting for a referral to GIDS.

It was supported by many influential adult TRAs.

The protocol to enable GPs to do this was known and promoted by some.

With regards NHS practice the 'Memorandum of Understanding' which was obtained in the autumn 2017 is important.

Janice Turner discussed it prior to being implemented (also with regards James Caspian):

"And now trans activists are pushing for the American treatment strategy called “affirmation”, where doctors cannot challenge a patient who declares they are trans. Trans activists are lobbying hard to change an NHS policy document called the “memorandum of understanding”: they want to extend a ban on gay “conversion therapy” to include gender identity. In other words, a counsellor could no longer suggest that a patient’s belief they are in the “wrong body” is, for example, anxiety about being a lesbian or a reaction to sexual abuse. They would be silenced or risk malpractice suits."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3041152-i-am-janice-turner-s-no-1-fan-another-excellent-article

Personally, I'd quite like the idea of supportive groups for gender non-conforming kids where there was absolutely no mention of needing to fundamentally change one's body to match a personality or toy preference. Just girls in coveralls building awesome robots or boys in tutus dancing, being cool and accepted for who they are without any medicalisation or pathologising these behaviours as being incorrect for their sex.

My teen DD is gender non-conforming and autistic, she is fully supported at home and at school to be herself. I’m not sure we need special support groups, because I honestly think most kids are gender non conforming, or would be if they saw less of the gender stereotypes. Perhaps just make sure our schools and homes are reinforcing gender stereotypes in the first place! Last time I was at DD’s school one of the older girls had a drill in her hand and was building something with the teachers in the entranceway. In overalls! Then another girl walked past in full goth outfit. Nobody bats an eye to either.

I agree, you shouldn't need special support groups. Schools need a zero bullying policy re appearance, no gendered restrictions on uniforms, and clarity that all courses, clubs etc (bar sex-specific sports teams) are open to all. This may require some extra effort to encourage pupils to do things which contravene gender stereotypes.

Girls don't need to be 'gender nonconforming' to build awesome robots ... more like 'don't give a shit about gender'. Feminine-looking girls are perfectly able to build robots!

This is good, but I still don’t think GIRES should be writing material for GPs

Aren't there organisations also the ones that they call up when everyone else turns them away?if the dr tells them there's nothing wrong with them that will just push them to have these groups and their followers as the only source of support...

That is a very true and worrying statement. Maybe the question is similar to dealing with the issue of children with mental health problems who are looking at things like horrific pro-anorexia websites or awful images glorifying self-harm? The online plays a part in this, as is all the "training" going on by lobby groups. I do think doctors need to counter all the misinformation out there and say no when something is incorrect. I feel like there needs to be banners everywhere saying: humans cannot change sex! Healthcare professionals playing along with all the transactivist demands seems like the worse option, as it cements the idea that something about the child is pathological and can only be fixed with blocking natural puberty/development, a lifetime of cross-sex hormones, sterility, and surgery...

Once the child is an adult (18+), then they can choose what to do in terms of permanently altering their bodies. But I feel like this has to come from a place of genuinely informed consent, and if a person doesn't understand the reality of their immutable biological sex versus a psychological gender identity then I'd question their ability to comprehend what is going on. Crystal clear information using basic medical facts, not propaganda from lobby groups, is what is needed IMHO.

Perhaps just make sure our schools and homes are reinforcing gender stereotypes in the first place! Last time I was at DD’s school one of the older girls had a drill in her hand and was building something with the teachers in the entranceway. In overalls! Then another girl walked past in full goth outfit. Nobody bats an eye to either.

This does seem like the ideal solution

Feminine-looking girls are perfectly able to build robots!

Absolutely! That’s another important aspect to this.

Yy oxy
A support group would just reinforce the whole thing too.

" hi I'm jess, I'm.a girl but I like cars"

Theres nothing wrong with any of these kids

Yeah part of the problem is the association of ideas, that liking blue means good at building robots, that liking make up means good at dancing.

Regardless of whether you have a penis or vulva, if you feel there are two columns into which interests fall, you will feel the urge to pick a column.

Gender conforming child are also victims of this, ok they don’t end up on horrifying medical pathways, but girls who like doing their make up still end up thinking they can’t build cars.

It’s wrong for everybody, the sterilisation of kids is just the massive great red flag on top of the iceberg which has LOOK HOW BAD THIS IS FOR MOST OF US written on it.

I say most of us because of course some people benefit - mainly white men who aren’t actually that good at but make a brilliant career out of not having much competition and turning up on time.

Good

I used to get called a boy when I was young and I would get confused and ask my Mum... she would just say, ‘ oh aren’t they stupid? Come on, we’re too busy for this! Let’s go feed the animals’ or something like that! I was in turn, like that with my daughter. Her friends say that I dressed her ‘like a boy’ when she was young. Honestly I didn’t consciously do any such thing, I just picked clothes we liked and dressed her depending on what we were up to. Much like myself. It’s been a non-thing in our family. She’s quite entertained by others interpretations of how she and I dress though- which is often still feminine but usually a crazy mix!

perhaps their friends are also telling them it makes sense as they like X Y Z and that's what boys/girls do.

It's not the children saying this that makes it hard to combat, it's the reinforcement by adults. If children insist on reinforcing gender stereotypes but most adults reject them, then children will get the message that it's OK to be gender nonconforming, and it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with their bodies. It's the adult reinforcement which ultimately does the damage.

being reluctant to prescribe drugs because they do not have sufficient training and experience.

I read between the lines here, but this isn’t about having insufficient training and experience. It’s saying we do not think this is a clinically correct course of action. and this is positive and important because it is a pushback (albeit a cautious one) against the TRA lobby groups who are trying to override evidence based medicine.

These groups have wielded so much influence and their dim is to get the standard of care changed so that the standard of care is unquestioning affirmation and no barriers to medicalisation.

So this statement, cautious as it is, is significant

I’m also aghast at the thought that people who don’t conform to narrow gender roles are seen as abnormal and in need of intervention.

Fuck
That

Girls don't need to be 'gender nonconforming' to build awesome robots ... more like 'don't give a shit about gender'. Feminine-looking girls are perfectly able to build robots!

But in the current climate, a girl who wants to build robots is gender nonconforming. It's not all about appearance.

GIRES 2014 Accounts

extract shown in picture makes explicit GIRES and Mermaids joint campaign for medical interventions for children in UK
www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GIRES-Accounts-2014.pdf

Oh yes I know it's the adults behind it all but they are raising the kids to question it. Dd has has comments about her shoes since reception ffs.

She came home just a couple of weeks back telling me a kid in the class laughed about someone's brother because they liked something "girly"

Dd of course at moment knows its rubbish. And didn't see why he couldn't play with whatever he liked.

Its exhausting having to constantly remind them though. To undo it all on practically a daily basis.