Appointing yourself to decide how people discuss inequality

[lisamuggeridge]

So with austerity, there was political consensus, rule of law was undermined for women and there wasnt a peep. In that time I also learned that in the UK very posh people, some of the most privileged eole in the country., have been 'identifying as feminist' or the left and thought that meant they were the peole who decided if anyone was allowed to discuss it. So quite a lot of people are dead and we still didnt discuss it. But there was a movement about those systems, and only a coule of months after the GRA deadline we appear to be having the same conversatoin.

Can someone explain how you qualify to be in this central authority who decides how people can discuss inequality and powerlessness? COs am quite sure it makes no sense for the entry to that to be an elite university, and being part of hte social network around the left.

Is there a way to bypass this cos I havent found it, and have never had any confirmation that this is an officially recognised layer in our democracy. So confused. I hd heard something about women standing u and being heard but here we are again..

The implications of feminism as a gatekeeper, which is what we are discussing, a gatekeeper to women discussing inequality are profound, when that gatekeeper is almost uniformly extremely privileged there would seem to be issues here about power we are not discussing when we ask how far Posie Parker should be wedged under buses.

I thought posie's main issue is over free speech?

If all these academics etc rush to denounce her as not being the right sort of feminist, and saying she's not talking to the right sort of women, are they really feminists themselves? Trying to restrict another woman's right to speak because they don't agree with what she has to say?

I imagine they're threatened because posie is straight talking and appeals to people like me who can't get my head round all the academic stuff because I'm too busy with real life.

Is that the best you can manage wfkaw?

Post after post of moaning about "elite" women who are happily paying over half of their income in tax and NI to cover the cost of the welfare state to ensure all families are at the national average, and all you can manage to say is slug?

Is everyone supposed to be handwringing?

And so it begins. Night folks. Be back tomorrow.

''s that the best you can manage wfkaw?

Post after post of moaning about "elite" women who are happily paying over half of their income in tax and NI to cover the cost of the welfare state to ensure all families are at the national average, and all you can manage to say is slug?

Is everyone supposed to be handwringing?''

''...sometimes it’s harder when you know too much/know too many people personally.

Take heart from the fact that there are thousands of us discussing this topic and doing small things oblivious to the hierarchies that you describe.''

I think so, its quite difficult to discuss systems when we are all part of one and its much more difficult to see failure when you ar afraid to see it as a system we are all part of and contribute to.

It's a great and important series of questions. I am very much on board with the idea of liberating women, tbh, and I'm getting very invested in the idea that feminism is not an 'idea' that is imposed top down by a few people with an education and enough capacity and resources to drive it through, and with it a whole load of their own blinkers and political viewpoints.

It is, instead, something organic and grassroots, a collective of women, from all backgrounds and levels of education, perhaps only connected by a shared acknowledgement that they are held down because they have the same basic biology, coming together and having real conversations, and building momentum to challenge the systems which hold them captive. Women's liberation, if you will.

I'll be honest, as a woman who is bisexual, devoutly Catholic, a Foodbank volunteer, an abuse survivor, pro life and can't stand the new Doctor Who, I know full well I will differ with other women on a great many things. But I am so willing to have those conversations and see a society where each and every woman is freed to the point where we can all be exactly who we are and be enemies if we must on the things which make us individuals.

Because none of it matters, none of my opinions matter if we are not all free.

'and can't stand the new Doctor Who''''

You cant really say none of it matters after that. There are lines. Lines that can never be crossed. At some point some things matter. This.

But agreed floral bunting. It doesnt matter if we ar enot all free, and certainly if we are not nothing else matters.

afraid to see it as a system we are all part of and contribute to.

We all see this every week or month when we get paid. We see exactly what we are contributing. It is written on the payslip. Elite women contribute.

But hey, just resort to insults.

Thank you Lisa. I'm off to bed as I will be working all day tomorrow, and apologies for not liking the new Doctor. I tried, really did. I wanted Olivia Colman, and I feel cheated. Anyway, I shall watch the thread with interest and see what other contributions are made. Night all xx

so remember as you're being personally attacked and your space trashed that you must have seriously stood up to them - well done.

''womanformallyknownaswoman''

I accept it as what it is, its a very clear expression of something very useful, especially as its so reliable you can set your watch by it, and its useful I think on a thread where questions like these are discussed to have that presence demonstrating something quite important like you say. Thats the thing with simple mechanisms, their very predictability becomes useful.

You know what the derailing attempts remind me of

How is this derailing?

The OP has asserted that welfare and local authorities are collapsing. I was surprised at that assertion so checked the figures. I asked how the published numbers can be described by the OP as collapsing?

Not very impressed at the attitude that to challenge sweeping statements like that is akin to being a rapist or abuser. Can you perhaps tone down the accusations and get them in line with the discussion of austerity?

Thanks (but not that hopefull).

Can feminism be feminism if it is directly about preventing women asserting and challenging power dynamics if those women dont meet the requirements of that elite gatekeeper?
Do men have any such gatekeeper to bypass if they wish to assert power?

so a low socio-economic slug probably

So are we supportive of low socio-economic populations or for them in this thread?

Your insults appear to be attacking the OP's.

womanformallywoman I must ask that you dont say the word slime. The phase has passed and I am trying to pretend it never existed.

I can't take this thread seriously if as soon as any statement challenging the OP is made, the OP and other participants start immediately posting nasty insults.

so a low socio-economic slug probably

Classist comment. Makes a mockery of the thread.

Having just re-read the thread title it all makes sense.

If you've appointed yourself to decide how people talk about inequality then you make the rules agree with the person who has appointed their self or be insulted.

The irony.

Because none of it matters, none of my opinions matter if we are not all free.

And we all must acknowledgethat we will have different ideas about what constitutes freedom.

The most promising, insightful and respectful conversations havehappened here, on mumsnet. After the, I thought, very respectful conversations that were happening here after Jeans blog post, I think it is extraordinary to see gender critical academics join in with the ‘distancing’ from Posie.

Naive of me I suppose, but it is short sighted and narrow minded ofthem to go straight for the ‘distancing’ reaction.

I am unsure who the other ‘elite’ women referred to in Lisaks posts are, and what they have been up to. Are we talking about trade union women?

They comes in pairs - always - and they talk to each other and respond in DARVO language - in real time

emmmm