Mermaids 'power couple' Hannah & Jake Graf say surrogacy laws must be changed to force women to hand over babies

[QuietContraryMary]

Jake & Hannah have joined a surrogacy agency and want to rent a womb. Hannah says, however, the law should be changed to compel the rented woman to hand over the baby at birth.

www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/transgender-couple-ready-start-family-call-uk-surrogacy-law-141118630.html

Every day. Every, fucking day. Some new, oppressive-to-women thing someone wants is feted in the press as 'lovely', or 'brave', or 'freeing' (insert whichever word-opposite-to-the-truth-is-appropriate).

Every day, we lose more and more women's rights to safety, privacy, self-determination.

Assuming they are now unable to conceive naturally did they store eggs or sperm before transitioning? I'm guessing they must have done because in UK law at least one of the intended parents must be the genetic parent of the baby.

Sorry meant to add- there are apparently surrogacy cases in the US where the intended parents have no genetic link to the child at all. How is that not buying a baby?

These people came to present to my work last year as part of diversity week. Sadly I was offsite that day so couldn’t attend.

They must have a good PR agent.

I find the public begging for someone to give them the “ultimate unselfish gift” abhorrent.

These two both transitioned in their 20s. They must have known that physical transition means sterilisation. They should have considered whether the possibility of becoming parents at some time in their life was more important to them than the modification of their bodies to resemble those of the opposite sex.

Pre-transition, if Jake had presented as a woman who wanted to be sterilised in her 20s, the answer would have been no, because she might want a child at some time. But say the magic word 'trans', and it's suddenly OK and they can just rent some other woman's womb if they want a child.

Within Europe most countries completely ban any type of surrogacy including France Germany Spain Italy Norway. Austria Switzerland Iceland as well as China Japan Turkey in Brazil you can only be a surrogate for a relative,
I think it should be banned completely

It's so entitled as well like 'why wouldn't any woman want to carry a baby for us, we are so stunning and brave, it's the least that women can do for us'?

Do you know what though, depending on how this goes, it could be a bit of a turning point. Here are two people who transitioned to be their 'authentic selves' who are now realising that they cannot have the thing they want ie. a baby. Maybe people who are thinking about transitioning should be pointed towards these two to say 'these two want a baby but they can't because they have done something irreversible to their bodies, is that what you want for yourself?'

So women - who MRAs treat like dirt - are useful for breeding.

Biology does matter.

God it really is Gilead.

Trans people seem so angry and confrontative these days if the media is to be believed.

I find the public begging for someone to give them the “ultimate unselfish gift” abhorrent.

I wonder if these two have ever tried being unselfish themselves? Can't imagine it somehow. It's all about 'me, me, me'.

Teacup. It's so depressing. UK could follow those countries that have made a stand. Instead we have a legal consultation which is looking to give the UK up to date laws to lead the world or some crap like that. Ie just like California but better.

I fear that some easily influenced relatively young TM/non-binary/ally will end up volunteering

I fear that some easily influenced relatively young TM/non-binary/ally will end up volunteering

The scales would probably fall from her eyes when she's had a few months of her bladder being kicked from the inside, though. It's one thing to be all altruistic when you're young and don't realise what's involved in pregnancy, another to have gone through months of kicks and sore breasts and running to the loo and being manhandled and scanned and seeing the tiny life growing inside you.

When you simply accept that TRANS MEN ARE MEN and TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN you realise there is nothing to fear.

Then get a TRANS WOMAN to be your surrogate Jake & Hannah. Crack on with that one, eh?

Don't lecture the rest of us IN CAPITALS, just find yourself a dude who identifies as a surrogate mother.

Simples.....

@Thingbob oh, look, a sex-based discrimination exception!

What dystopian hell is this, where the average person thinks nothing of purchasing a new born baby, whilst removing the agency of the mother whose body cherished and nourished it. Whose breasts will ache for her stolen child, whose body will bare the scars of the pregnancy for the rest of her life.

We know that women who were forced to abandon their babies to mother and baby homes in the 50s and 60s suffered immensely throughout their lives as a result of the separation. That bond is real.

UK could follow those countries that have made a stand. Instead we have a legal consultation which is looking to give the UK up to date laws to lead the world or some crap like that.

Will it be like the GRA consultation, whereby groups representing those who could be most adversely affected will not even be consulted? For the GRA, it was women’s groups. For commercial surrogacy, it will be women’s groups AND child protection groups.

Absolutely fucking no on this idea.

That is buying a baby. Buying a human being is so far off what is right that I can't believe people are considering it all as a good thing.

Here you are Cabbage

They're consulting surrogates and intended parents. The rest of us can keep our noses out.
The plan is:

3. ensure that reform recognises UK surrogacy as a positive and accepted form of assisted reproduction

We therefore recommend that:
• The principle of altruistic surrogacy, which operates in the UK must be protected to reflect that surrogacy is a relationship, not a transaction.
• Parental orders should be pre-authorised so that legal parenthood is conferred on intended parents at birth.
• Intended parents should register the birth.
• Parental orders should be available to IPs where neither partner has used their own gametes (‘double donation’).
• The time limit for applying for a parental order should be removed.
• Parental order/surrogacy birth data should be centrally and transparently collected and published annually.
• IVF surrogacy cycles and births should be accurately recorded by fertility clinics/ Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA).
• NHS funding should be made available for IVF surrogacy in line with NICE guidelines.
• The rules on surrogacy-related advertising and the criminalisation of this should be reviewed in the context of non-profit organisations.

Aand....Of course...the NHS must fund.

Also please note the 4th recommendation:
Parental orders available...where neither partner has used their own gametes. Ie has no genetic relationship to the baby.

If anyone can tell me how impregnating a woman with an embryo unrelated to you and walking off with the baby is different from buying a random newborn I'd like to know how.

surrogacyuk.org/aboutus/surroref/

I'm just laughing at their names!
'Hannah & Jake' are just the 2 most obviously female and obviously male names. Don't want anyone getting mistaken and thinking them the opposite sex...

Racecardriver yeah and while we are at it, if you're going to permit prostitution then the obligation of both parties needs to reflect the arrangement from the point of agreement.... I mean if you are going to pay to use someones body and you both agree to it... after that point no one should be able to change their mind even if they dont want to do it any more... the guy has the money he should get his fuck... the couple has the money they should get their baby.... your body is just part of the transaction... no need to get all hysterical about it! You have something someone wants, they offer to pay for it... and it is definitely something that can be bought

Thanks Iused2BanOptimist. Think I am rapidly losing optimism too.

Are there any groups that you know of who are protesting on behalf of women or children? Any petitions? I am horrified that commercial surrogacy may become law.

They are selfish narcissists. The lack of self awareness is stunning, as is the belief that THEY are hard done to because even if they find some poor woman to exploit, they can’t legally compel her to hand over her baby.

Ehm.. is it just me or are the TRA demands going to absolutely cripple the NHS..is that actually the intention?

A life time of medicalisation, ongoing need for cosmetic surgeries, treatments for complications surrounding those surgeries, and now demands for a healthy supply of newborn babies, who will be encouraged to transition from an early age, no doubt, so they can be more like mummy and daddy.

Did anyone watch Top of the Lake? With I-can’t-remember-her-name who is Offred in the Handmaid’s Tale? The second series featured poor Asian women being used as surrogates in Australia.