Transrational: Manifesto

[KlutzyDraconequus]

transrational.co.uk/manifesto/

If anyone is interested.

KlutzyDraconequus

Here's a thought to ponder:

If "gender dysphoria" is real how come there are zero examples of adult heterosexual females who 'transition' compared with the number of adult heterosexual males who 'transition'? If "gender dysphoria" is real, surely it would affect both sexes in similar ways?

Understanding 'Flying Monkeys' role with regards 'gaslighting' as part of controlling patterns is important.
There's lots of information and discussion but I found this article useful:

'Flying Monkeys (The Narcissist’s Tool for the Smear Campaign)'
(extract)
"The topic today is about the role of flying monkeys, who can become flying monkeys, how the narcissist recruits flying monkeys against the target, why does the narcissist use these flying monkeys, and then I’m going to give you a mini survival guide for dealing with flying monkeys." (continues)

Flying monkeys make the narcissist feel like they’re important and special. They help the narcissist feel like they’re grandiose, like they have high status, like they’re famous or a celebrity, which is what the narcissist wants to feel. Narcissists often have a whole entourage around them just like a celebrity needs an entourage in order to feel secure about themselves.

So who can become flying monkeys?

There are two different categories of people.

The first category is the naive.

The naive are people who are just clueless. They can’t see it, they can’t fathom it, they’ve never been through anything like that, so they can’t even imagine that somebody would do such a thing to just make up all these lies about you and spread them across town. They just can’t even fathom that a human would do that or maybe the naive is also the fawning type.

This is the type of people who when faced with a fight or flight dilemma, they choose fawning instead where they just melt into into a strong, dominant personality to feel safe and they don’t realize what’s happening. You might have noticed that even you became one of these flying monkeys when you were in your naive state before you woke up, before you figured out what was going on.

The second category of people who can become flying monkeys are the toxic.

These are the people with no boundaries. They love gossip and drama, they’re addicted to that stuff They have an integrity problem and usually they want something from the narcissist. They want status, they want flattery, they want favours. They’re getting something out of the narcissist, which is why they’re willing to do their bidding." (continues)

Why does the narcissist use flying monkeys?

First of all they like to discredit the witness. They like to discredit you so that you don’t reveal your truth or so that maybe you’ll just be so ashamed and terrified that you won’t say anything, instead you’ll just swallow it all.

Maybe they know that you have the balls to tell the truth and tell people in your community, your family, your circle of friends, your office and they don’t want you to reveal that truth. So they have to discredit you so that people aren’t really sure who’s telling the truth.

Maybe it looks that you are totally the one who’s lying in this situation when that’s the exact opposite of reality.

The narcissist doesn’t have to get their hands dirty abusing you because they can recruit all these other people to do that work for themselves.

And finally, they’re going to use mobbing against you so that you feel alone and unsure of your reality.

When it’s one person against one person that gaslighting can be really challenging. When it’s a whole group of people who are subscribing to that reality, and then you, you’re going to feel really alone. You’re going to really be tempted to doubt yourself and your perception of reality. The flying monkeys can be a very powerful ally for the narcissist." (continues)

medium.com/@OwnYourReality/flying-monkeys-the-narcissists-tool-for-the-smear-campaign-798daf7a59c0

If "gender dysphoria" is real how come there are zero examples of adult heterosexual females who 'transition' compared with the number of adult heterosexual males who 'transition'? If "gender dysphoria" is real, surely it would affect both sexes in similar ways?

Source for your statistic?

KlutzyDraconequus you shared your thoughts very eloquently.

I semi agree with the 'be nice' aspect of using the preferred pronouns and how it would feel when people don't. The analogy with anorexics only partly works because no one says their dysphoria is correct and they should be indulged in their beliefs. So your post made me think.

However I really struggle with the way once feminists largely did comply with pronouns we were attacked and there was a land grab for our rights. Whilst the real transphobia were ignored.

And the attack on Alison Moyet was shocking and she was doing the be nice and respecting pronouns all she did was say she didn't like be called 'cis' so we've kind of established being nice is not enough for them

established being nice is not enough for them

Not enough for them
As in the entirety of the Transexual population?
Bit of a mass generalisation there, though I'm sure it wasnt purposefully done, not all trans people think the same, just like all feminists dont think the same etc.

skims it briefly

I think this might have worked 10 years ago but won't work now and here is why:

People like me who were pretty open to trans rights and feminist and sympathetic but who still wanted t preserve spaces for women-born-women tried and tried to open this very dialog with them, begging for some sort of rational discussion over where to draw the line on transness. What women's spaces should be for transomwen and women? What spaces should be reserved for female bodied women only? I made a long impassioned post on my blog asking people to please get along, have this discussion, for transwomen to accept that they would not been seen the same as women-born-women and that we needed our own spaces sometimes, and for there to be some clear guidelines drawn up by trans for trans to define who is a transwoman to keep out predatory males who might just take advantage of trans access to women's spaces to prey on us.

For my pains to bend over backwards and please everyone I was called a bigot, a hater, a nasty privileged ciswoman, my little nothing blog was featured on a popular trans site for people to come and spit hate at me, I was mocked daily even after I took my post down, I was told I needed to sit down and shut up, I couldn't' understand, etc. etc. Furthermore they refused to draw any guidelines beyond self ID for transness and said no one ever self IDs as trans for the purpose of preying on women''s spaces, even though I have personally seen men do this.

A decade later I think it's far too late for THEM to now say "oh let's be rational about this".

tldr of my post - this is far too little, far too late.

Recent important thread which considers the lobbying by Press for Change etc and policy/legislation implications over ten years ago:

AngryAttackKittens comment
"I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

Pronouns are generally used to describe someone who is not present.

There's a difference between 'preferred' pronouns and 'compelled'

It has an impact both on the perception of the person describing someone and also on the people listening reading, changing the perception of someone's sex.

I sat with someone a few years ago who tied themselves up in knots talking about events from the past which included her close friends after her friends' husband had taken steps to transition. She clearly cared for and respected these friends who I also knew.

Language matters and is a powerful tool.

Haha the nice old school transsexuals from the early 2000s are the ones who called me, a transwidow (although I was completely trying to be supportive then) an "abuser" because I dared question, even a little bit, trans ideology. They publicly talked about how miserable my partner must be and how terrible it was I didn't submit completely to all trans ideas and hoped he would leave me because of the "psychological violence" I committed upon him by saying he wasn't exactly the same as a woman born female at birth and that he wasn't more oppressed than a woman.

KlutzyDraconequus yes my use of the word 'them' was a generalisation whereas what I meant was it will never be enough for the hordes of violent trans activists I see in the media and on twitter. I don't include the reasonable 'old fashioned transsexuals' although I note transwidows like Oldermum and Tinsel have a valuable perspective on who might or might not be included in the term 'them' so I'll just qualify it as NATW not all trans women

It has been a real case of give them an inch and they took a mile or five.

This is just someone who has realised that the bulldozer approach is not going to be as easy as they thought because they, like many men before them, misjudged the strength, tenacity and capacity for logical thought that women as a class possess. It’s a return to the “totalitarian tiptoe”. Just edging small concessions here and there until they’re more sure footed and can go in for the kill.

It’s the thin edge of a very thick, women erasing wedge and I’m not buying it.

Rowantree. Time and again males perceived as being 'moderate' trans women are applauded without the actual details and the specific implications for women and children of their statements and actions being considered.

Yes they are.

they, like many men before them, misjudged the strength, tenacity and capacity for logical thought that women as a class possess

YY - the more things change, the more they remain the same.

@LuggsaysNotaWomen yup

We gave them the chance to be reasonable and make reasonable requests back when it was mostly just a niche movement of them talking to radfems.

They threw a total toddler tantrum.

Now that they can't get larger society to budge they are trying to get us more on their side by this faux reasonableness.

Oldermum156

Absolutely and now less of us are falling for it, I might have done a couple of years ago but not now they've overplayed their hand (gender neutral pronouns making it sound sweeping generalisation)

Transwidows
Your stories really need to be listened to, your perspective is so valuable. You encourage me ask "what about the women and children?" instead of being swept up in a "stunning and brave" narrative.

Just wanted to touch on the manifesto. Specifically what Transrational writes about prisons:

To prevent abuse of the system, and ensure the safety of all prisoners, we feel that which prison a transwoman is housed in should be relative to her surgical status in order to prevent blatant abuse of the system. That said, it may be most appropriate to judge these issues on a case-by-case basis, as there may be rare cases where a pre-op or non-op transwoman should be sent to the women’s facilities. Careful, balanced, considerations of risk are paramount. Both the safety of the trans prisoner, as well as the wider prison population, must be taken into account.

WTAF?

NO. I am afraid I cannot accept ANY male prisoners in a female prison. This "case by case" thing is already failing, and I just don't understand why women need to put up with any of this nonsense. Why should any "non-op transwoman" (read: fully intact male) be placed with females?

We have plenty of evidence that this is a terrible idea. We have evil people already exploiting the notion of being "trans". I understand that people want it to be all "Laverne Cox in Orange is the New Black," but the reality of the situation is Ian fucking Huntley, Jacinta Brooks the paedophile, and Karen White the rapist who is apparently trying to get a genital operation to be moved back to the female estate.

NO. I no longer care whether a prisoner saying they are a transwoman has "legitimate dysphoria" (whether having undergone cross-sex hormones or surgical treatment or not) or is a male claiming to be a woman for nefarious purposes because they are a dangerous criminal inmate. AFAIK, there is no test for "true trans." How could we tell if we're dealing with a charming consummate liar, if the only actual criteria for being trans is just "because I keep saying I feel like I am the opposite sex"? Create a trans-only facility, which trans people design to meet their specific needs and can control access to. Trans people can debate the ins and outs of "real" versus "fake" and create these assessments to decide who gets to join the trans folks in their own safe trans space. Just leave females out of it.

NO males should be kept with vulnerable female prisoners. Any policy allowing some males to move to female estate creates a very dangerous precedent that will be exploited by dangerous people. Many crimes (including most sexual assaults) do not result in conviction so the idea that we can even adequately risk assess based on official history is misguided. Most importantly, the policy is not beneficial, in any way, to the general female population. Why should females be expected to absorb any level of extra risk in order to accommodate some males that say they identify as women? Most women prisoners have already been victims of brutal male violence. Why would anyone who cares one iota about the well-being of women even consider putting any criminal males into that mix?

Honestly, it's very uncomfortable to me that any males should decide they have a say on access to female-only space.

The main thing I can see is in this manifesto is an acknowledgment that material reality exists and words have meaning, which seems like the bare minimum for being able to speak with each other. It's tragic that the state of the discourse is such that my instinct is to massively thank the TransRational crew for having the courage to even write this. But it's not a pro-women document, it's a pro-transsexual document. And the self-ID policies we are fighting right now have been lobbied for by transsexuals, for transsexuals. The difference is that now with the ever-widening trans umbrella it's a bit easier to see the consequences...

Female-only prisons is an absolute hard line for me. I can't really see how a group may acknowledge some problems with toilets/changing rooms and state the need for some gender-neutral third spaces, but don't seem to understand that prisons in particular are essential to keep sex-segregated.