Essex Library transgender upset.

[ChesterGreySideboard]

Essex County Council removes 'bigoted' transgender image www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-47064138

I agree that this isn’t an ideal picture at all, but in fairness I’m not sure what is.
My problem isn’t with people being upset about it but with this quote: Another said: "The depiction is not only awful but 'man, woman or transgender' is an extremely ignorant choice of genders."

Ffs.

ROwan,

Thanks for that, I have bookmarked the Jonny Best article after reading it. Really interesting, because I had no idea all this started around ten years ago.
He is bang on about this being an ideology which uses the larger organisations - Stonewall being the most obvious, to push a radical, fundamentalist dogma, which doesn't accept questioning or scrutiny.
The only major political party which doesn't seem to be obviously infiltrated is the Tory party, which is a great pity, but makes sense, because Labour, Lib Dems and Greens are all neo Liberal/woke/leftie (but not in a Socialist type of way).

Surely we'd get away from most of this outrage and inadvertent offence causing by just not asking anyone what their sex/gender is. For 99% of stuff it simply isn't relevant and shouldn't be recorded

Quite. What does it matter most of the time. It certainly doesn’t in this. What are they going to say ‘only 30% of women want the library to stay open, let’s close it then.’

I have bookmarked the Jonny Best article after reading it. Really interesting, because I had no idea all this started around ten years ago.

significant recent thread which considers the lobbying by Press for Change etc and policy/legislation implications over ten years ago:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

AngryAttackKittens comment
"I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."

Soon we will all just appear in marketing literature as the Genderbread Person, or a pink female symbol, a blue male and a pink, white and blue person.

TA member finds the library unsafe? God help us in an emergency then.

Oh yes one of my libfems posted this to me in a big upset the other day, I just started talking about something else. Where is the lie? What picture do they want? How do you visually depict a trans in a way they won't complain about? So fragile and easily triggered. A big non issue. Just ask trans with no picture. They will complain about that too but whatever.

@ChattyLIon - "Trans men are literally not in the picture are they."

No one cares about Transmen, because they are women.

I do agree with the criticism that transgender isn't a gender. Since "transwomen are women" and "transmen are men" just check off the one you identify with, what is the problem? Sorry, not putting the fifty other genders they have invented now. We have the forms to think of.

@andyoldlabour - you really have to watch out for those dangerous abused mothers with small children fleeing their violent male partners. They're a real menace to society what with the misgendering they do and all.

Soon we will all just appear in marketing literature as the Genderbread Person, or a pink female symbol, a blue male and a pink, white and blue person.

Yes, there will be no recognition or discussion of a person's sex.

(without identifying sex it is not possible to describe sexism or male pattern violence, abuse etc)

There should be no silencing in the library!

The only reason I can think of for a library wanting to know the sex or gender of its users is if they think they need to bias their selection more to 'masculine' or 'feminine' choices ... stereotypes... but in that case 'gender' might be the attribute they're after.

My DD pointed this out to me when I was harrumphing about the bbc asking for gender when I signed up with iplayer a while ago. (For avoidance of doubt, her hair is not blue)

Of course, in neither case to they really need to know.

Why not ask if you have mobility or sight issues? If you need help finding and getting books? If you find the opening hours difficult? Are there any topics of particular interest - would books or a display/talk/leaflet be of use?

Not - you grown up person - what are you?

Maybe they do also ask those sensible questions? I'd have hoped they would.

Hopefully without helpful little images.

Oh my. Someone clear missed the whole point of transgenderism. Not very woke.

This issue displays so many of the issues I have with transgenderism.
Someone tried to be inclusive with presumably the best intentions and it ended up on the BBC with people saying they no longer can feel safe in a library because of a form.
It reminds me of a tweet I saw not long ago by a TRA who told someone off for being transphobic because there was no space between 'trans' and 'woman', and when asked why it was transphobic, she replied 'I don't know. That's what I was told.'
So much of this has got nothing to do with transphobia, or actually hurting anyone, or having to be somewhere that is actually unsafe.
It's about getting to claim victimhood and having the power to tell someone else off even when that person is trying to put you first.

User data can be collected via member's library cards though. They know who borrows which books and as a library bus user, my experience is that they are pretty good at rotating the small selection of books within each genre to meet users needs.

I think Rowan made the point earlier that the demographic data collection is standard in this sort of consultation, which I acknowledge to be true.

It's interesting to ask why it's being collected though isn't it.

Asking employers to Collect ethnicity data about their employees has a purpose.

What value does asking what gender someone identifies as add to a consultation about library closures?

Asking about gender is a meaningless euphemism, of course no one needs to know if more people who like pink use the library than people like tractors.

Local authorities have to collect this data and demonstrate awareness of demographics of users and patterns of use. So age, male, female, and now trans/nb statistics become useful in writing statistics about which needs are not being met, or what needs dominate a particular service, particularly if the service is under threat of closure as many are/ particularly libraries. For this purpose - like the Scots meeting over the census questions - it would be most useful to record sex AND any interesting personal choices around identity to get an accurate and useful picture for service provision and monitoring.

It's affected by a small but noisy and vexatious group who want their personal choices and meaningless labels to be recorded for their personal validation and satisfaction. The word 'gender' is a euphemism/compromise to try and get this information without provoking tantrums. It's failed, because there are those in this group who get their needs met via the tantrums and the reactions. As my manager used to say to me about vexatious clients: no matter what you do, you will never be able to make this person happy.