The word is out there

[Kettleon80]

Hi all

I left Mumsnet a while back when the new moderation rules came in after a number of slapped wrists, but I've joined again to share my own little bit of news. I've now NCd but it's very similar to my old one.

The Trans debate seriously made me so angry, ill and depressed but I've had some space now and would like to get a bit more involved again.

Got chatting at work today with two white, middle aged, male colleagues. Did not mention anything about my GC views but they knew ALL about the trans debate, thought it was an absolute abomination that there may be TW trying to enter female toilets, knew all the dangers - everything. It made me very happy that they had got wind of the debate, and made me think that this is now mainstream. They are not on Twitter or MN but had all the info.

So today I felt quite satisfied in my own small way. I've never spoken about these issues outside GC forums and family so I feel like it's become perfectly acceptable to say that you don't believe TW are women.

And if that gets my chucked off MN so be it

Welcome back

Well, I don't believe the mantra Trans-women are women. I would ask a person stating that, in what way are they women since a trans-woman is not a biological female. What is about womanhood that some men desire so greatly they are prepared to take hormones for the rest of their lives and even go to the lengths of having an artificial vagina. I don't know. What I do know is I embrace trans -women who seem to have a clear understanding of who and what they are, are comfortable in female society and heavens above seem to actually like women, unlike the extreme trans activists who obviously don't'.
Every person, be they straight, gay, bi-sexual or trans has the right to be respected and be free from discrimination and bigotry.
Women have the right to be respected and have the freedom to engage in a conversation about legislation which could materially and detrimentally affect them. Seems not though in the eyes of the trans-lobby. What worries me the most about the trans ideology is that far from freeing us, particularly children, to be ourselves, free from sexual stereotypes it is doing the opposite, taking us back to the years when feminists fought against sexual stereotyping. It is they who are boxing us in again, especially children, confusing them about what is means to be a boy or girl. We encouraged children, back in the day, to be themselves, not be seen through the prism of their biological sex. It's what we women wanted, what we still want and surely men too. It is this suppression of free speech, this creation of a climate of fear by the Trans lobbyists which I deplore the most. The fact this has not been recognised and denounced by Parliament, Institutions, academia is extremely worrying. Instead, women are the ones denounced, branded as bigots etc. At times I do feel depressed but we just have to keep fighting. I and my sister have been feminists since we were teenagers and that is a long time ago. We will be dammed if we give up on the hard won rights of women now after all this time fighting for them. There is still a long way to go for women in the world, to have equal justice and to be free from male oppression.
A bit of a rambling post but finding Mumsnet has been a source of comfort and support.

Hear hear Illyria47

I spent an evening last week peak transing an old friend. He knew about sport, women's spaces and all of it - the reason he's never said anything is he's a lovely guy who questions himself and thought he might just be a grumpy old codger out of step with society and being A Baddie.

Great post op and Illyria47.

It is amazing how we are being forced to speak untruths.

I think the more we continue to speak out the more people will speak out in support who at the moment don't feel able to.

Illyrea47 Perfick, hugs ((()))

Yes the word is definitely out there, and it's really heartening isn't it?

And welcome back!

questions himself

This is why nodebate is a thing, it's to stop discussion around the topic and make it taboo.

It's also why it's important to inform as many people as possible, word of mouth is still alive and well, and thankfully isn't policed yet.

Welcome back Kettle and I’m glad you feel you can include your voice on here again.
Ironically I started posting (previous long time lurker) when I saw that people were leaving here, becoming disheartened with the moderation anomalies and I could feel the frustration. I’m so grateful to the women on here who keep the conversation going. But it’s also so important to withdraw and renew your strength when you need to.

In my experience straight, middle aged males are probably the least likely demographic to believe TWAW.
Contrary to the consensus here that men don't care about things until it affects them, I believe most men are GC.

Welcome back, Kettle. I missed you! (And all the others who felt silenced and left).

"Contrary to the consensus here that men don't care about things until it affects them, I believe most men are GC."

Back in October when I posted about McKinnon on a cycling forum, I expected to see lots of folks supporting my view, where from the outset I clearly stated that TW's should not be competing against women.
Sadly that didn't happen, and a lot of replies seemed to indicate that I was making a fuss about nothing. Only a couple of women replied and were supportive, but some of the guys were even suggesting that I was breaking the law with some of the things I was saying (younger guys I think).
The whole problem with this issue is the media and the lack of public awareness. The only media sources covering this in any realistic way, are those that we probably refer to as "right wing", and the only MP to stick is head above the parapet is David Davis, a Conservative.

McKinnon on a cycling forum

Trans women in sport may be an exception. I think a lot of people, women and men, just think it's too crazy to be a thing until provided with evidence.

Y'know bathrooms have been "self-ID" since forever. Where do you think trans women have been peeing until now?

I mean, it's not as if you need to present a certificate or show your genitals to gain admission.

This line of argument is really bizarre.

I think you’re on the wrong thread not2day , we’re not talking about bathrooms.

andy I think you’re right re the lack of public discussion and media coverage on this.

"The only MP to stick is head above the parapet is David Davis, a Conservative...."

That would be David TC Davies, not David Davis, both Tory MPs

... Although apparently lots of mps agree but don't want to say so in public. Great public service ethos there.

HumberElla These days I lurk far more then I post, but I'm so grateful to all the women like you who stepped up to continue the conversation when lots of regulars got banned or took a break

We like to keep the conversation civil here, no need for name calling.

There is a thread on here called ‘break it down for me’ which if you search for it provides some reading around the wider issues of self ID.

AcornRiver there may be many reasons for self harming, and more than one possible treatment, good psychological assessment and support is essential

Kettle glad you came back

Things are changing IRL And the activists are helping

Online is weird, the rules here are applied inconsistently and Twitter feels a bit Wild West

That's great news.

However there are still swathes of women who have no idea and are only exposed to the consequences of disagreeing with TWAW. There are too many corners of the Internet where any discussion is immediately shut down and anyone not complying is vilified.