Judith Butler defends Genderism in New Statesman, and Jane Clare Jones critiques it

[kesstrel]

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1087725670988427265

My opinion of Judith Butler sinks still further....

AngryAttackKittens

Have you read the link? She uses Google search histories over the last few years to back up Butler's genealogy of the idea of gender criticality as rooted in Catholic directive. It's actually really interesting and a useful piece of research.

Nah, it's really not.

PS This conversation is particularly funny if you understand how Google search works. And also if you understand what "genealogy" means.

It does show a huge misunderstanding of how Google search works.

The screenshot included also omits search results.

However, I used Google Trends to analyse searches for the term 'Gender Ideology', looking only at the UK (the author mentions the GRA), and contrary to what the article suggests, it peaked in the early noughts. And I'm guessing the people doing the searching aren't religiously motivated because none of the other terms related terms searched for were in any way religious.

When I say early noughts - 2004 is the earliest date range, the term is at its peak in January 2004, it then declines.

This is a laughable, desperate attempt to construct an argument, especially in a country such as Britain where only a tiny minority take Catholic dogma seriously in any way.

What's with the Catholic bashing? Do orthodox Islam or Judaism or Hinduism support the idea that men can literally become women because they say so? Thought not.

This is a laughable, desperate attempt to construct an argument

Quite. The poster who posted it is unable to refute any of the other excellent points made on the thread about Butlerian views of feminism, I also note.

She uses Google search histories over the last few years to back up Butler's genealogy of the idea of gender criticality as rooted in Catholic directive

Sorry, just to be clear, Skyz are you saying that Gender Critical Feminism was made up by Catholics in 2016?

That does appear to be the crux of her argument.

Do the Catholic Church really care if somebody is trans?

They might not believe that somebody can change sex, but is that mentioned in the bible in a way that implies that all trans people are going to hell?

Are catholics organising vigils outside gender reassignment clinics?

the Pontifical Council on the Family wrote a letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church signaling the potential of “gender” to destroy feminine values important to the Church

Oh dear. Somebody signalled something.

That is exactly the same as actively intervening to deny access to birth control.

Not 2016. Earlier. Though of course it's embedded in aeons of patriarchal religions

Gender Critical Feminism is embedded in aeons of patriarchal religions?

I don't think the desire to abolish gender (sex roles) is embedded in aeons of patriarchal religions. Quite the opposite.

On the other hand, I freely admit that the fact that you can't choose your sex has been recognised by humans since before we were humans. If dogs could talk they'd be able to tell you that.

I see the flailing has commenced.

This conversation is particularly funny if you understand how Google search works.

It's a bit like when whichever one of them it was used their own Twitter search history completions to make a similarly desperate point.

I'm getting a bit of a Groundhog Day feeling with this one tbh.

It's a bit like when whichever one of them it was used their own Twitter search history completions to make a similarly desperate point.

Haha yes and the point they were trying to make was that Julie Bindel doesn't care about women in prison. I think that was one of the best foot-in-mouth moments I have ever witnessed.

And now we have Google search history showing us quite conclusively that we have all been brainwashed by the Pope without realising it and are now unwittingly spreading a Catholic agenda.

If I'm going to spread a Catholic agenda I feel like the Vatican ought to send me some robes. Least they can do, really.

Not sure if the repeated Google fail indicates that there are more non-technie TRAs than previously realized or if they just assume we won't know any better because vagina, or because mums.

Gender Critical Feminism is embedded in aeons of patriarchal religions?

Yes. As someone who has studied gender I can confirm that all the earliest research was done by papal legates.

Not sure if the repeated Google fail indicates that there are more non-technie TRAs than previously realized or if they just assume we won't know any better because vagina, or because mums.

The latter.

As I believe Andrea Dworkin originally said, every sperm is sacred.

And of course, the Reformation happened because the pope refused to endorse Martin Luther's right to identify as a non-binary novigender pansexual, except on Tuesdays when he got paid.

No one knows about this because it didn't really happen because the transphobic papal legate gender researchers have colluded with radfems to have it covered up.

I'm not Catholic lapsed or otherwise but I was a member of a conservative evangelical church for quite a few years.

It's astonishing that anyone can seriously claim that radical feminism is embedded in patriarchal religion.

Traditionally, Christianity has taught the ontological subordination of women to men. In layman's terms, that our nature, our being as women is inferior the nature and being of men. They would quote Bible verses which speak of men being the image of god and women being the image of man.

As a reaction to second wave feminism, churches largely changed their tune on this. They stopped referring to the ontological (innate and essential) superiority of man over woman and instead switched to men and women being equal in essence but unequal in function and role. This is still a popular view in many conservative evangelical churches. They'll say things like ''men and women are equal in the eyes of god, but god made men to lead and women to submit''. I don't know what variation of this is taught in Catholic churches but given they still forbid women from joining the priesthood I would guess that they do teach that women and men have different functions and roles within the 'body of christ'.

This suggestion that rad fems are in some way colluding with patriarchal religions to uphold and strengthen an oppressive system which gives men all the power and all the control is clearly divorced from reality.

I'm a very lapsed Catholic, and I don't knew what they're teaching now, but back in the '70s and '80s, it was very much that women should submit to and were inferior to men. It was very much the virgin/whore thing. To boil it down, women existed to clean churches and have babies.

janeclarejones.com/2019/01/24/judith-butler-how-to-disappear-patriarchy-in-three-easy-steps/

Jane Clare Jones has a blog piece on it now, for those who enjoyed the Twitter thread :)