What are you telling your children about sex and gender?

[irnbruforlife]

I am hearing how a lot of teenage children have been sold the gender identity ideology as legitimate truth from various sources be it school, social media etc. My dc are far younger, and whilst I don't have as much control as to what they learn at school, is it wrong to instil a rigid belief in them that humans cannot change sex? That trans ideology is like any other religion, some people believe in it and are entitled to believe in it, but (imo and I say this respectfully) they are wrong and if they push their beliefs too far it will cause discord/May be dangerous for other people in society.

I struggle with this. Mine are only 2 and 4 but they have a transgender relative they’re very close to and I don’t want their view to be tainted in anyway.

Surely you can tell them people cannot change sex? My kid asked me that when he was between 2 and 3. That wouldn't impact the relationship with the relative, would it?

Me too, ReaganSomerset - I would have been straight into the head’s office with a formal complaint. It’s beyond belief that any teacher should be reinforcing crappy 1950’s gender stereotypes in this day and age.

What makes a Woman' and said Miss can I put XX chromosomes in my 'What makes a Woman' paragraph? (proud mama moment grin) and was told No!! angry. Told just put likes makeup etc shock.

This is outrageous. Did you let that stand!?!

planespotting This is just not on. gender is about whether people expect you to like barbie dolls or dinosaurs'.
Dorothea Bates, Mary Anning...
ahhhh so wrong I can't even begin to.

Care to explain what you are meaning here? I can't make head nor tail of your comment.

god, frazzled, I would morph into the Parent From Hell if a teacher said that to my DD.

This hasn't come up much but I've always told her that gender stereotypes are a nonsense and she often has clothes or toys from the 'boys' section.

My kids go to a strong religious school and they won't have any talk of this or being gay. My kids know about it all as people talk but I just explained. Boys are boys and girls are girls when their older maybe secondary I think we will have further discussions x

Mine are 8 & 6. I have deliberately been very clear to them about the science of sex (f/m) from a young age. They know chromosomes define sex. They also know very strongly that sex definies reproductive organs and has zero to do with how a person wants to live/dress/love etc.

I hope I’m instilling in them a very strong sense of scientific fact plus an appreciation and love for the differences that distinguish us all. They know men and marry men, and women can marry women, that girls can do everything boys can, and boys can wear anything a girl can.

I tell them gender is a social construct and they can not change sex.

Unfortunately my eldest totally believes in TWAW & TMAM. He didn't care that by today's standards I would have been trans, and he wouldn't exist if what was happening now was around in the 80s. I just mention occasionally that you can't change sex. I should ask him if he'll accept a transman as a partner who still has female sex organs. Surely if he won't he's transphobic too?

I've banned my 14 yo from tumblr. He's not impressed. He was chatting to another "14" year old who has just come out to their family as asexual homoromantic genderqueer. They were talking about self harming and going NC with their evil bigoted family. Nope, not having stupid ideas put in his head. He is quite scientific and logical so I hope what I've said is sinking in, but who knows? But on the other hand he is quite gender non-conforming and I would hate for him to think that just because he hates sport and likes certain tv shows etc it must mean he has a ladybrain.

My daughter is 3 and I have only told her about sex, but of course just a very basic level so far. She knows the main external anatomical differences between girls/boys and women/men. She knows that when she grows up she will be a woman like me and she knows a little bit about some of the things her female body will or might be able to do when she grows up, e.g. that babies grow inside women, women can make milk for their babies, women sometimes bleed from their vulvas (haven't really talked about the internal stuff yet). She is obviously too young to really grasp the complexities.

I haven't directly talked about gender except to tell her that boys and girls can do and like whatever they want. To be honest I am hoping the whole obsession with innate gender has died down a bit by the time my children old enough to start worrying about it. Gender is bad enough without the idea that you must 'identify' with it in some way.

My son is 1 and can say penis. He's clearly noticed that he is like his dad and not like me in that sense. Haven't really got further than that.

I am counter indoctrinating in advance of puberty with:

• We are all born and remain male or female. We stay that way. Our sex can never be changed.

• It's fine to be a feminine boy/man or masculine girl/woman. It's not worth thinking too much about and has nothing to do with a person's sex.

Your sex is fixed, male or female

Your gender is however you want to be, nothing is only for girls or boys. Eg Pink, trucks, maths are for everyone.

Can anyone recommend a book for DS9 that explains biological differences between males and females, and the difference between sex and gender?

I bought The Body Book by Claire Rayner which goes into good detail but the language is too babyish. DS likes science books so I want a factual book that talks about the vagina, not the special baby-making place.

I've seen Let's Talk About Sex recommended but some of the subjects covered are too old for him, and I'm confused by its explanation of gender.

I ask because DS told me last week there is a transboy in his year (Year 5), who uses the boys' changing rooms. At the moment he's fine with it from a privacy aspect, but he's confused about whether they are a girl or not. I've told him that they are a girl but prefer to pretend they are a boy. I said he should be kind to them because they are probably teased a lot but to tell me if he ever feels uncomfortable changing in front of them.

I don't want to make an issue with the school about it if DS is happy, but I don't want it to confuse him or give him the wrong information about sex and gender.

I’ve spoken more to DD (10) about the issue, as she was doing Girl Guides and also competes in various sports, so it seemed a time way to open up the conversation. She seems to instinctively understand the key issues from a gender critical perspective without much being said.

It makes perfect sense to her that a) biological sex is factual reality and cannot he changed and b) gender is a construct.

I think it resonates with her especially because a) she started her period at 9, so she is VERY much aware at a young age that she is biological female and b) she doesn’t present as ‘feminine’ - short hair, wears tracksuits, plays football etc - and gets fed up with the expectation being that she should like pink sparkly shite and makeup because she has a vagina.

14 yr old DS has ASC and sees things in quite black and white terms. He hasn’t quite learned how to moderate his language, yet 😬.
He thinks sex changes are ‘gross’ and it’s stupid to want to be a girl/boy when you’re not. We have had a few conversations and he just pulls a face and says ‘what is WRONG with these oeopl’, and I actually end up softening my stance a bit and reminding him we still need to be understanding and compassionate towards individual people.

*Today 09:07 planespotting

This is just not on. ' gender is about whether people expect you to like barbie dolls or dinosaurs'.
Dorothea Bates, Mary Anning...
ahhhh so wrong I can't even begin to...*

Plane-spotting, my dd knows all about Mary Anning. I think you may have misunderstood my post.

I've taught her that gender stereotypes are the things that society expects from boys and girls. I have not taught her to conform to those expectations.

My DC are in school with mostly Muslim kids. We are atheist. So we already have a good grounding in having friends who believe different things. I'm going to introduce it as being like a new religion. Be kind and tolerant and friends with people who believe in it, but it's not our belief. It's OK to personally disagree with something - I disagree with the little girls at this school covering their hair from as young as 6 for example - but you can still be friends with those people. I will say ANY person who seeks to impose their beliefs on you is probably worth ignoring. And we're starting to talk about sex, biology, consent and healthy respectful relationships.

That said I'm also going to check the school isn't planning on teaching sex stereotypes and unscientific crap!

Mine are 14 and 12.
They've never asked and we've never specifically taught them.
But DH and myself are both very matter of fact - chromosomes dictate sex. It's biology, can't be changed outside of science fiction.
I've never been very "girly" and DH has never been very macho, so I think they absorb decent gender ideas.

There appears to be a six year old trans boy (?) in my daughters class in that she came home one day and said “oh yes —— is in my math group and she wants to be called a boy but she’s really a girl”.

Could be the kid is really a feminine boy and my daughter was mistaken. Anyway not sure. I told her that was interesting and to call the kid however he/she wants.

We’ve spent most of time so far talking about stereotypes and why they are bad. Also penis / vs vagina for male/female. Have gotten a bit into how places in the world don’t let girls go to school, etc, and how that is wrong just like racial discrimination (MLK day was yesterday so they covered that in school too).

planespotting This is just not on. gender is about whether people expect you to like barbie dolls or dinosaurs'.
Dorothea Bates, Mary Anning...
ahhhh so wrong I can't even begin to.

Care to explain what you are meaning here? I can't make head nor tail of your comment.

@CallMeSirShotsFired they were very important scientists who did an awful lot of research in the paleontology
field, tired of little girls thinking and hearing stuff like that. Mary Anning did find some heads and tails 

• Plane-spotting, my dd knows all about Mary Anning. I think you may have misunderstood my post.

I've taught her that gender stereotypes are the things that society expects from boys and girls. I have not taught her to conform to those expectations.*

See @NineInchSnail I don't agree with teaching her that in the first place, that is putting it in her mind even more

@planespotting

IME the kids at school put it into their minds whatever you say. Forewarned is forearmed, I reckon.

i don't agree with teaching her that in the first place, that is putting it in her mind even more

I don’t know how it’s been for you as a parent but in my experience the moment my daughter left the house (she started Pre pre-school at age 1.5) she was absolutely BOMBARDED by gender stereotypes, boy toys/girl toys, “I can’t play with you cuz you’re a girl”, “job X is for men” etc. Like this was before she Really even had the words “boy and girl”.

At least where I’m at there’s no avoiding this conversation from a very young age unless you want your kids to believe the shit the rest of society forced upon them. So we spend a ton of time pushing positive nonconformity / role models of all types as a balance to all that.

I don’t know how it’s been for you as a parent but in my experience the moment my daughter left the house (she started Pre pre-school at age 1.5) she was absolutely BOMBARDED by gender stereotypes, boy toys/girl toys, “I can’t play with you cuz you’re a girl”, “job X is for men” etc. Like this was before she Really even had the words “boy and girl”.
Gosh even before DC was born!!!
But I just think maybe there is a better way of wording "what society expects", something like "some people expect" I don't know, just my thoughts

I think my four year old gets it

"Mummy, I met xxxxx's Aunt (play date) today. Her Aunt is actually a man because you can't change that I know, but Aunt xxx likes dressing up as a lady. I think that's fine to do that if you want, eh Mummy?"

I replied in the affirmative.

But I just think maybe there is a better way of wording "what society expects", something like "some people expect" I don't know, just my thoughts smile

Well yea sure I don’t think my kid even knows the word society. “Some people think girls shouldn’t go to school etc,” and “isn’t it ridiculous that some people think boys can’t play with dolls?? People are so silly!”