More or Less Radio 4 now - prevalence of intersex

[Bittermints]

They're very good at this. Examining the common as redheads claim and the 1.7% claim.

Good to hear.

Just listening to this too.

Listening to this too- very good indeed

I first noticed More or Less when they debunked the Harman/Baird claim about foreign sex workers in the UK being trafficking victims, based on nothing more than a circularity of assumption and devoid of any facts.

Well, that was well handled.

The endocrinologist said he didn't like the intersex term and would prefer to use disorders of sexual development. As a non-medic with no personal experience of this I was pleased to hear him say this, as I've never understood why all disorders of sexual development are bundled together when the symptoms and treatment needed are very different. He talked about Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. Women suffering from this have been described as intersex and he said he didn't think that was merited. From what I can make out there is no doubt whatsoever that women with CAH are female. If they are removed from the total, the estimate of prevalence goes right down and he said he thought it might be 1 in 1000, so 0.1%. Rather different from 1.7%. He didn't explicitly say there are two sexes, male and female, but he certainly didn't suggest that there were more.

It was a sound debunking of that 1.7% figure with the Royal Free consultant who was interviewed suggesting the figure was closer to 0.1%, even taking into account those people who wouldn't necessarily be known to the medical community. Also covered the use of language and how many people with DSD wouldn't consider themselves to be intersex.

sorry for x posting bitter!

That was a v good item. I wish they'd also do an investigation of the Mermaids claims for suicide rates of 'trans' children.

No worries, Jaguar, I knew more than one of us would be posting!

Bore, if only. That might be a step too far for the BBC, though.

I saw on Twitter the other day, by the way, that the curriculum of Harvard Medical School is being reviewed to check it meets woke standards on all issues involving sex and gender. There's something that could do with some rigorious fact-checking.

Will catch this on iplayer now, sounds like they did a fine job.

www.thecollegefix.com/transgender-activists-gearing-up-to-rewrite-harvard-medicals-curriculum/

That was a v good item. I wish they'd also do an investigation of the Mermaids claims for suicide rates of 'trans' children

Don't they select items based on listeners' enquiries?

I think Paris Lees' claims were fact checked after Question Time last year. Not by R4 but by the independent factcheck organisation.

Thread on related current government consultation:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3482584-The-teeniest-glimmer-of-hope-in-new-government-consultation

You can always email them:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/40zRcKypd3lHBNWl0xWJYMF/contact-us

I listened to this and found it very intresting. Tim Harford is very good abs i highly recommend his other programme' 50 things that shaped the modern economy '.

Also he consulted the bbc gender person Megan someone to get her % figure (then debunked) . Wasnt she pretty useless on a Womans hour debate before the consultation closed, or am i misremembering?

Will listen to this when I get in.

I recently listened to an earlier programme explaining how they calculate how much Neanderthal DNA we possess. It was fascinating and clearly explained.

The correlation between ‘factually correct’ and ‘clearly explained’ is quite high.

Almost as if people who present false facts make their language deliberately difficult to understand.

Also he consulted the bbc gender person Megan someone to get her % figure (then debunked) . Wasnt she pretty useless on a Womans hour debate before the consultation closed, or am i misremembering?

YY I have a memory of this too.

She had just come into post and struggled.

yes I thought it was good too
I don't think they mentioned that sometimes hypospadias is counted as 'ambiguous genitalia" which it very clearly isn't, that's a baby boy with a lightly wonky willy

Excellent piece.

I think that the modern trans ideology can't survive the correct facts about intersex numbers. The whole thing is built on the idea that the sex classes are social constructs called "genders" instead of material reality. Once you remove the fake intersex numbers the whole ideology collapses.

er, a slightly wonky willy

If they are removed from the total, the estimate of prevalence goes right down and he said he thought it might be 1 in 1000, so 0.1%.

That was his personal estimate, he pointed out that the official numbers are much smaller.

He also pointed out that it's still a very broad use of 'intersex' in a way that doctors don't. DSD is the medical term because it does not imply that people are other than male/female and it doesn't conflate different conditions.

current thread OP wrote:
"New consultation on Variation in Sex Characteristics includes
"The sex characteristics of focus here are naturally occurring genetic, chromosomal, gonadal, anatomical and hormonal variations...This is distinct from being transgender or non-binary, which are to do with a
person’s gender identity."

Biology to the fore? Intersex is not transgender in print! Issued by the Equalities Office."
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/variations-in-sex-characteristics-call-for-evidence

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3482584-The-teeniest-glimmer-of-hope-in-new-government-consultation

Ooh I missed that! Thanks R0wan

Love "More or Less".