The teeniest glimmer of hope in new government consultation?

[1hello2hello]

New consultation on Variation in Sex Characteristics includes
"The sex characteristics of focus here are naturally occurring genetic, chromosomal, gonadal, anatomical and hormonal variations...This is distinct from being transgender or non-binary, which are to do with a
person’s gender identity."

Biology to the fore? Intersex is not transgender in print! Issued by the Equalities Office.
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/variations-in-sex-characteristics-call-for-evidence

[timetostepup]

Is this from Penny Mordant's department.

Although, she did say "transwomen are women" she also ordered an inquiry into ROGD.

I wonder if she's peaked / is on her way to peaking.

[timetostepup]

Sorry a missing question mark there!

I have no idea if this is from Penny Mordant or not - does anyone know if it is?

[Manderleyagain]

It looks to me like it would come under her remit. She is minister for women and equalities. This is the equalities office which covers women and lbgt.
I didn't realise she is also minister for international development - spread a bit thin!

[JSmitty]

It's got her name written on the top of it.

[feministfairy]

I've seen a letter from Penny Mordaunt where she states that "...many people who have questions about the possible wider effect of GRA reform are coming at this issue from a place of sincere and understandable concern for the rights and safety of other people in society. As a Government, it is our responsibility to ensure that we deal these concerns appropriately as part of the way forward on this issue. This includes considering the effects that any reform may have in specific contexts, such as single sex spaces, prisons or schools....."

Now that does seem to be a slight shift from the normal TWAW and the position that we're all bigots for pointing out the issues with government's preferred advisers - the flashers, the porn and let's repeal safeguarding law advocates, employers of paedophiles and charities that promote fetishes and kinks to children.

It looks as if they might be starting to understand that too many of those currently at the top table have major issues that render them unsuitable to advise a government about women and children? Maybe?

[AncientLights]

And what is very worrying about Penny Mordaunt wearing those two hats, Manderlayagain, is that she is promoting single sex toilets for girls in the developing world whilst presiding over their removal in our country. I wonder how she copes with the cognitive dissonance.

[SonicVersusGynaephobia]

Oh that's good. It almost sounds like someone there actually knows what they are talking about.

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

Yes but what exactly do they need this info for?
Don't trust Mordaunt at all.

[Thingybob]

I think this is a small step forward but there has been such confusion caused by the attempt to add an I to LBGT that I hope not too many of the wrong people 'identify' as having a biological condition and fill out the survey.

I've just completed it (I've worked with people with intersex conditions so was eligible) and I didn't like the implied, underlining assumptions e.g. that people with intersex conditions are not properly male or female.

[howard97A]

It looks to me like a call for 'evidence' that biological sex is a spectrum

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

It calls to everyone in the United Kingdom, especially people with variations in sex characteristics

So I'll have a go!

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Ha! That was unecessarily tricky. I'll have to get back to it!

[Thingybob]

It is only asking for responses from people with intersex conditions or those with direct knowledge, e.g. parents, carers, organisations that directly work with people who have these conditions.

[Manderleyagain]

Jsmitty hahaha I didn't spot that.
Feminist fairy- was this a letter to a private individual or something more public?

[feministfairy]

Manderleyagain
It was a letter to an MP who had forwarded a constituent's letter to Penny Mordaunt. That section just seemed a bit more positive than much of the tra propaganda and bigotry that to date has been written by all the tone deaf advisers in the MoJ, the DfE etc when responding to letters.

[PositivelyPERF]

she is promoting single sex toilets for girls in the developing world whilst presiding over their removal in our country. I wonder how she copes with the cognitive dissonance.

I suspect there may be a subconscious racism at play. It could be a feeling that females need protection from bad men in those countries, but of course we in the West shouldn’t worry about that because NA(western)MALT. A load of bullshite, of course, but it helps those that want to push for the dismantling of women’s rights to female only spaces.

[theOtherPamAyres]

What a pity that the Equalities Minister is asking for factual evidence.

It means that we won't get to hear submissions from the Gender Studies' academics who claim that sex is a spectrum. Their batshit theories are pure comedy gold.

Shame!

[donquixotedelamancha]

I wonder if she's peaked / is on her way to peaking.

I don't think so for a moment, but I also doubt her ridiculous statements on self ID in the past were genuine, thought through beliefs.

I think quite a few senior Tories are looking at their careers post-May and realising that chasing the woke-imbecile demographic has not worked out as they hope, so they are retconning their positions.

[R0wantrees]

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3482851-More-or-Less-Radio-4-now-prevalence-of-intersex

[heresyisthenewblack]

Bumping this thread, as the call for evidence closes soon (on the 28th March), and I wanted to ask for thoughts about participating.

I think I've noticed it being shared by transactivists previously which made me a little concerned about who is writing in.

Have any intersex advocates given opinions as to whether it's worth filling out just to say: "please can the absolutely relentless co-opting of DSD/intersex issues by transactivists stop?! Listen to actual people affected by reproductive variations, not those peddling gender ideology! And also, sex is not a spectrum!"

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/variations-in-sex-characteristics-call-for-evidence

[Mamello]

My sister with Turner Syndrome is not happy! The implication in this consultation is that her condition is somehow 'intersex' and she could have somehow been 'assigned' the wrong sex at birth or is on some spectrum. She is female - she has a womb, ovaries, vagina, breasts, she is a woman and she just happens to have TS. She also has an IQ of 146 so doesn't like being treated as if she doesn't know what's going on!

[NeurotrashWarrior]

@Sam2112 hope it's ok to tag you

[heresyisthenewblack]

I'm sorry that your sister is being treated like this, Mamello. Is she UK-based and might have time to fill out the survey to tell the government her thoughts?

I've started a new thread to try to raise a bit more awareness of this call for evidence before it closes.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3536323-Government-call-for-evidence-on-variations-in-sex-characteristics

[Mamello]

heresyisthenewblack

Thank you for your response.
Yes my sister is in the UK and has filled in the consultation. She also wants to post something on mumsnet and I will do that on her behalf on your new thread tomorrow. She doesn't want to do that herself as isn't sure mumsnet is quite the place for her just yet.

[heresyisthenewblack]

Thanks Mamello, and thanks to your sister! I was just looking at the questions for each category, and they seemed to go into some detail!

I don't think anyone has posted on the other thread (which I started to focus specifically on the call for evidence, rather than the language within it, IYSWIM?).

I would really appreciate reading your sister's thoughts, if she feels she can share them with us on MN. IMO women's experiences of medical conditions that are labelled intersex are so important to hear. I REALLY worry about this "gender" stuff completely taking over the conversation, how that might impact the healthcare of women with variations in sex characteristics and their ability to advocate effectively for themselves.