Distressing case - Jayme Closs - has there ever been a case like this where the predator was female?

[Bittermints]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46867224

Horrific case.

He allegedly told investigators he was driving to his job at a cheese factory one day near the village of Almena when he spotted Jayme get on a school bus. The charging document quotes Mr Patterson as saying that when he saw Jayme, "he knew that was the girl he was going to take." Mr Patterson told police he only had worked at the factory for two days, and ended up spotting Jayme on one of the two mornings he drove to work. The complaint says the accused twice scouted the Closs home near Barron with the plan of taking Jayme.

He then went to the house at night, shot her father through the door, shot her mother upstairs and absconded with this poor child, who was 13, and kept her captive for three months. She managed to escape and he has admitted everything. I can't imagine what she has gone through or how she will recover.

However, reading that, it occurred to me, now rare it is that we ever hear of any similar crimes committed by women. That level of obsession combined with violence and entitlement is just not found in women, is it? What goes wrong with the socialisation of these men? I note that his brother has a conviction for sexual assault on a minor.

I don't like arguments on the basis of very particular and very extreme crimes

Yes but what is at the root of this crime, an adult man becoming sexually obsessed with a child/children, actually isn’t unusual at all, is it? And shootings aren’t unusual either, at least in the US. The kidnapping and extended captivity is perhaps the most unusual part, but that’s certainly happened a lot in the past too.

What I’m saying is I think pretending crimes like this are outliers is not useful, when their component parts are actually reasonably common among crimes committed by males.

I think that it's not vital to determine what part of male violence is down to socialisation and what is biologically based. First I'd like to see a concerted, determined, organised, consistent and long term attempt to socialise boys and men with the positive values that are often socialised onto girls/women. Let's see how much of an impact that has and then discuss the nature/nurture balance.

It'll be a long time before that happens though.

I agree that there’s no use in endlessly dissecting the specifics of what’s “natural” (what even is nature nowadays, when we’re talking about human society?). And in any case, men should be able to restrain themselves from acting upon damaging impulses, natural or not. I believe socialisation does have a very important role to play, and eradicating gendered socialisation must always be one of feminism’s top priorities.

I do feel though that the emphasis I often see on socialisation being the ONLY cause of certain statistical differences in male and female behaviours is intellectually dishonest. I just don’t think many people can seriously believe this is the case, and it renders some feminist claims ridiculous, IMO.

The phenomena when a woman murders with her partner has a special name that escapes me atm.

Hybristophilia?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia]]
[[

I’ll try that link again:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia

Thanks for that, Aspie ! Very interesting. The phenomenon of women writing to and falling in love with known rapists/murderers, briefly touched upon in that link, is really fascinating too.

The only female sexual kidnap case I can recall is the beauty queen kidnapping the Mormon missionary in the 70s www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/history/beauty-queen-kidnapped-mormon-ex-1449616

Very very different to the Jayme case, or the too many to count other sexual abductions of women, girls and boys by men

There's a condition called [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux Folie à deux]]. Madness involving two people.

I note that his brother has a conviction for sexual assault on a minor.
The brother committed this assault when he was 18 and the girl was 16. He was convicted of 'sexual assault in the fourth degree', which is usually applied when the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the victim (i.e. a teacher or other school employee) and can involve any kind of 'sexual conduct'. The maximum sentence is a year in jail.
US sex laws are draconian, especially when teenagers are involved, so it's possible that the crime wasn't as serious as it sounds to us.

Jaycee Dugards kidnapper was helped by his wife. But I can't think of any of these kind of cases where a female acted alone. It just doesn't happen.

There was a case in the late 70's where a beauty queen kidnapped her ex-boyfriend who had been 'called' to the Mormon Church. She hired two guys, tracked him down and took him to a cabin in the woods where she raped him for three days. She was charged and went to jail.

Errol Morris made a fantastic Doco about her - 'Tabloid'.

allthatsinteresting.com/joyce-mckinney-kirk-anderson

God, the poor girl. I'm still shocked she was found alive. "Found" sounds wrong somehow, since she rescued herself. Brave, brave girl.

In any instances I've heard of where a woman kidnaps a fetus or infant or child without a man's gratification involved, it's to raise the child as her own.

I am increasingly irritated at the female characters in Emmerdale and Corrie.
It is normalising violent behaviour in women in programmes where families are watching.

It seems they are pushing the false impression that women are the main perpetrators of violent behaviour.
So many women sent to prison in these dramas.

It is simply not like that in real life.

I'm also shocked at the women I've seen arguing that "he didn't rape her" like that matters, like he didn't KILL HER PARENTS AND SNATCH HER AWAY FROM HER HOME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

Furthermore, come on now. Of course he did. They're just not choosing to press those charges in an attempt to keep it away from the rabid press. Which I certainly understand but also wonder if it's wrong to not expressly call out what it is...male sexual violence.

But then, she's been through enough. If this is what she wants, she should get it it.

extract from current thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3481763-Renee-Gerlich-By-the-numbers-The-oppression-of-women-and-girls-globally-join-the-dots

Murder and male violence

A new report shows that, worldwide, about 137 women are murdered every day by men who they know. Fifty eight per cent of women killed in 2017 were killed by partners or family members.
Source: Feminist Current

The most dangerous place for women is in their own homes, a new report from the United Nations concludes. Domestic violence is the most common killer of women around the world. In 2017, 87,000 women were murdered around the world, and more than half (50,000 or 58 percent) were killed by partners or family members. Over a third (30,000) of those intentionally killed last year were murdered by a current or former intimate partner. This means that, globally, six women are killed every hour by someone they know.

The study suggested that violence against women has increased in the last five years, drawing on data from 2012 in which 48,000 (47 percent) of female homicides were perpetrated by intimate partners or family members.

Geographically, Asia had the most female homicides (20,000) perpetrated by intimate partners or family members in 2017, followed by Africa (19,000), North and South America (8,000), Europe (3,000) and Oceania (300). The U.N. does point out that because the intimate partner and family-related homicide rate is 3.1 per 10,000 female population, Africa is actually the continent where women are at the greatest risk of being murdered by a partner or family member.
Source: HuffPost

95 per cent of all violence committed against both men and women is committed by men.
Source: Caitlin Roper, Reclaim the Night Speech; ABC; Australian Bureau of Statistics

“Women commit perhaps one-tenth of all murders, and less than one tenth of one percent of all mass shootings. When one removes from the pool of killers all women who struck back against abusive strangers and partners alike, only to be punished for their self-defense, the number drops further. To deny the specifically male nature of atrocity is to fool oneself.”
Source: Jonah Mix, “Mass Killers Don’t Have a Warped View of Masculinity — Liberal Men Do” (continues)

I imagine they’ve chosen not to press sexual assault charges because there’s already enough to put him away for life, and they don’t want to put her through having all that raked through in public? My heart breaks when I think of her. I just hope she has good extended family to take care of her now.

Yes Sloth, that's what I think too. The county where she was found is not charging him at all, not false imprisonment or any of it.

I don't live in Wisconsin but I'm right next to it and I believe their law in first degree homicide without mitigating circumstances is life without parole. He'll have two counts of that as well as kidnapping. So yes, I assume they think that since he'll die in prison regardless, there's no point in throwing all that out there for the ghouls to salivate over. (Not to mention this case was very keenly felt by everyone around the area...depending on where they put him, "life" may be a short sentence indeed.)

As far as I've heard she'll live permanently with an aunt now and several plus her grandfather have been involved in the case since the whole thing started. They all seem solid and I hope with their help and enough therapy she will be happy one day.

I also wonder, if they go digging into Patterson's online activity, how much time he might have spent on incel sites.

I can only think of one case of a female offender kidnapping, raping and murdering a child without a male accomplice, and that was the murder of Sandra Cantu in the United States. Women who do these type of crimes are extremely rare. Wish it was as rare for men....

I just read the Wikipedia page about the Sandra Cantu murder, dulci

Strange and horrifying. That poor little girl. So completely random and meaningless.

I agree the crime does follow a typically male pattern. If I’ve understood the Wikipedia page correctly, the sexual assault and murder all took place within eight minutes or so. Presumably the sexual assault was the motive, although the murderer claims she doesn’t know why she did it.

Whenever a violent crime victim is discovered, police will invariably begin looking for a man first, because in almost every case, the perpetrator is male. They know. Looking for a female perp would be a waste of their time. Men are simply more prone to violence on all levels.