Rosamund Urwin Times, 'Jo or Joe? Surge in trans children changing names. Children as young as 10 are having their gender switched by deed poll'

[R0wantrees]

(extract)
Children as young as 10 are having their gender switched by deed poll as record numbers of British youngsters identify as transgender.

The UK Deed Poll Service has seen a sharp rise in the number of parents paying £35 to alter their child’s title from “Miss to Master” or “Master to Miss” in the past five years, with about one under-16-year-old making the change every day.

These changes are commonly accompanied by the renouncing of the child’s birth name and the adoption of a new first name from the opposite sex.

“We used to issue a couple of these deed polls every couple of months — but now it’s seven to 10 a week,” said Louise Bowers, a senior deed poll officer. “The majority are teenagers — 14 or 15 — but they go down to the age of 10.”

Bowers said that while some children tweaked their first names — transitioning from “Joe to Jo”, for example — others took on an entirely new name, “such as going from Louise to David”. The first child under 16 to use the service to adopt the gender-neutral title “Mx” changed the prefix earlier this month." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jo-or-joe-surge-in-trans-children-changing-names-5xftj66j6

R0 it's just strange to me how so many of those who want to come on FWR and berate us have woman's name + numbers...I didn't think the numbers might be dated though - d'oh!

terry I suppose some people may have a stronger need to use their name, gender identity and age than others.

Rowans being trees this is less significant for me.

I put more store in what people say and do tbh, much like honorific titles.

Anyone who wades into FWR and starts accusing all and sundry of bigotry and phobia is either utterly ignorant of what is actually going on or is deliberately choosing to put men's feelings ahead of the safeguarding of children.

There'll be a lot of in the second group since they often turn up with established TRA talking points. What makes me shudder when I wonder about their motivations.

That's a good point R0...my name's a male character in a film so I'm not sure what that tells us...

I actually read Tanya’s first post as a wind-up! That’s how bad it’s getting …

I agree that traditionally the parents were homophobic and the dysphoric thinking was a reaction to that.

However, I think it is wrong to extrapolate from that to the current trend. The people I know transitioning their children are the opposite. They have often grown up in sexist homes themselves and are very keen to prove they aren't like this but can't fully shake the stereotypes.

For example, their small children choose from a mix of clothes that are full on glitter pink or extreme Hulk fist, they just don't consider the middle ground. They prove their progressiveness by choosing from the opposite extreme but against a sexist, subconscious backdrop.

Disclaimer, I only know two families well, but I've met other families briefly through them at parties etc. I couldn't put my finger on how my children and theirs looked different and came to this theory. I'm talking primary age, so not physiological differences, it was the more unisex look sported by mine. Interesting the only child I met being raised gender neutral/non binary was the clearest example - they were mixing extreme feminine and masculine, nothing actually neutral.

The 2 teenage girls I had wanting referred rejected female stereotypes had mothers that weren't that bright and no father around. It was definitely more about rejecting the teenage girl stereotype than anything else

So according to ONS there are currently 9.6 million people under 16 in the UK - they could be issuing 10 deed polls a week max = 520 a year... which is 0.00542% of under 16's getting a deed pole each year.. and that makes front page news??? can someone check my maths please this seams a really small number and and even smaller story - I mean if The Sunday Times is reporting this surely I must be wrong??

Tanya
to get a true understanding of the fluidity of gender
FYI
Fluidity of gender is totally fine with most people.

I think you really meant to say stereotypes of gender didn't you?

Stereotypes of gender are the cause of the problem.

After all, there is absolutely no fluidity of sex is there?

can someone check my maths please this seams a really small number and and even smaller story - I mean if The Sunday Times is reporting this surely I must be wrong??

The focus is the 'steep rise' in appications and also the young age of some.

from the article:
“We used to issue a couple of these deed polls every couple of months — but now it’s seven to 10 a week,” said Louise Bowers, a senior deed poll officer. “The majority are teenagers — 14 or 15 — but they go down to the age of 10.”

cf Telegraph article August 2018:
'Women's minister 'cautious' over the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment'
(extract)
"The women’s minister has said she is “cautious” about the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment and warned the country needs to be “particularly alert” to the issue.

Victoria Atkins expressed concern that a rising number of teenagers were seeking “life-changing” medical interventions. Young people were undergoing treatment to change their gender because they regard it as “an answer to questions they are not asking themselves”, the minister said.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Mrs Atkins, who has responsibility for the Government’s gender equality policy, said: “I read in the paper recently that there has been a large increase in the number of teenagers who are identifying as such, and I think we need to get down to the reasons why this is happening.

“It may simply be a case of greater awareness, it may be that for some they see it as an answer to questions they are perhaps not asking themselves. We need to be particularly alert to this with regard to young people. The treatments are so serious and life-changing, I’m a little cautious of the use of those treatments because of the potential for the rest of their lives.

“Lots of questions are rightly being asked about how we treat young people, people whose bodies perhaps haven’t developed yet.” (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/26/womens-minister-cautious-number-teenagers-undergoing-gender/

Um, you do realise a person can't change their sex/gender by deed poll? Don't you?

Interesting to know that, despite all the "we're gender critical" stuff, some of you firmly believe that all children need gender-specific names.

Um, you do realise a person can't change their sex/gender by deed poll? Don't you?

We are wll aware that children cannot apply for a GRC until they are 18 years old. Also of what can be involved with 'social transition' and that there are growing numbers of young people asserting a range of gender identities including 'non-binary', 'agender', 'pangender' etc

As the article states:
"Bowers said that while some children tweaked their first names — transitioning from “Joe to Jo”, for example — others took on an entirely new name, “such as going from Louise to David”. The first child under 16 to use the service to adopt the gender-neutral title “Mx” changed the prefix earlier this month."

HTH

statistically a rise from 1 to 2 is a rise of 100% which could be sold as a massive increase but in numeric terms it's a small number. Its the same with this it is still a tiny number of name changes - really not worth a front page article i suspect there were more important things to waste print on.

If it was just the name changing happening in isolation you might have a point. But it's not. Very serious other things are happening at the same time, such as a 4,000 per cent increase in girls seeking gender reassignment.

“We used to issue a couple of these deed polls every couple of months — but now it’s seven to 10 a week,”

1 per month (12 per year)

7 per week = (364 per year)
10 per week (520 per year)

nauticant "If it was just the name changing happening in isolation you might have a point. But it's not. Very serious other things are happening at the same time, such as a 4,000 per cent increase in girls seeking gender reassignment."
But this article aims stir up peoples feelings about children who are trans by putting and article on the front page abut 520 deed poles a year - a rise from may be 50 per year so a rise of 100% but still a tiny number. It;s just a plain silly story.

Even your 4,000% rise in girls seeking "gender reassignment" is meaningless unless you know the absolute numbers and can look at those as a percentage of the population. For instance the estimates are that 0.5% of the population are trans so does this 4,000% increase reflect what you would expect to see in the general population?

You also need to define what you mean by seeking "gender reassignment" if they are under 16 then it's mostly going to be abut exploring gender by name change, clothing presentation nothing medical unless they manage to get through the 2 year waiting list to get to the Tavistoke to perhaps after another two years get hormone blockers.

But this article aims stir up peoples feelings about children who are trans

That may be your belief about the intention.

Alternatively it demonstrates how increasing numbers of children are being supported by their parent's to socially transition, including changing their name via deed poll.

This is the point really, to consider the circumstances in which this official name change would occur for under 16's.

(They would of course all have to have parental support due to the age range)

An increase from 50 a year to over 550 a year is a 1000% increase. An increase from 50 to 100 would be 100%. If you are going to quote stats understand them

A tiny number, you say, vicky. But big enough for schools to change policies and the government to consider changing laws.

As with all minorities legal protections are the way society addresses the balance of shear numbers ensuring every one is able to live equally.

As with all minorities legal protections are the way society addresses the balance of shear numbers ensuring every one is able to live equally.

As with all children, Safeguarding is the responsibility of everyone in society.

Safeguarding frameworks are informed by legislation and policies.