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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

British Man Who Fell Pregnant Warns Other Males That Giving Birth Is Really Hard

67 replies

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 10/01/2019 07:26

Comments appear not to be buying this fairytale.

www.facebook.com/361389970597/posts/10155854523770598/

www.inquisitr.com/5241665/british-man-who-fell-pregnant-warns-other-males-that-giving-birth-is-really-hard/

www.ntnews.com.au/lifestyle/man-who-gave-birth-opens-up-about-difficulties-being-pregnant/news-story/344dcdf28b02680ee3889ea4fe41bdac

OP posts:
pachyderm · 10/01/2019 23:27

There's something more than the "consumer" model of universities..Irish students don't have huge fees like British students and they are full-on through the looking glass, as bad as everyone else. I agree about lower standards and grade inflation. I worry so much about the lack of critical thinking.

Voice0fReason · 10/01/2019 23:43

Woman gives birth and announces that it was hard - this is news in what way exactly? Nothing about what she experienced was male.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 11/01/2019 08:43

I know surrogates aren't supplied by the NHS Grin

Doesn't mean some poeple don't think they should be...

I was going on this:
"In the interview with Lorraine, Hayden indicated that previously his expectation had been to use a surrogate mother to 'supply' a child. When NHS refused Hayden sought out sperm donation and decided to carry & give birth to his child. He became pregnant and gave birth to a baby girl"

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 11/01/2019 08:45

Anyone who uses the term ‘supply a child’ should immediately be barred from having children. Awful term.

R0wantrees · 11/01/2019 08:52

Hayden used the word 'supply' in the context of having his own child not the term 'supply a child'

Just to be clear.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 11/01/2019 08:58

But still ‘supply’ like a commodity. I didn’t supple DS, I just got pregnant and birthed him. I now parent him. He is a person not a packet of cornflakes.

R0wantrees · 11/01/2019 09:05

LordProf O yes absolutely agree with you. It really struck me which was why I quoted it.
It was also, I believe, framing the role and experience of a potential surrogate mother as 'a person supplying me with my baby'

I think the language often reveals a very specific mindset, just as in so many interviews with TRAs, Hayden says 'I want', 'I wanted'

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 11/01/2019 09:06

They don’t want to be a parent they just want a baby without actually thinking about the actual bringing up a child. Or the actual childbirth apparently!

NothingOnTellyAgain · 11/01/2019 09:08

But the expectation was that a surrogate would carry it.
Whether there was an expectation that this would be facilitiated by the NHS is not clear to me - maybe not.
Still an assumption that a womb will be made available one way of another.

This mainstreaming of surrogacy and the invisibilising (which happens with all women who have children TBH) of the physical and psychological risks is extremely concerning.

There is a push for commercial surrogacy in teh UK.

A lot of people who are choosing medical treatments that bring fertility treatment seem to think in terms of "oh some woman somewhere will do this for me".

Zeugma · 11/01/2019 09:23

The whole mindset is a disturbingly distanced one, and it's seemed to me for a long time now that it's increasingly wrapped up in the whole online/avatar culture.

No surprise at all that so very many people aggressively claiming trans status are heavily involved in IT, or gaming, or have online personas as 'cute' (shudder) fluffy-tailed anime-type creatures etc etc. Or all the above, and then some. How many times has all of it been cited? Just think of AC. Or rather, don't.

The belief that you can be anything you want to be - anything you say you are - trumps all reality.

So in a way I'm not surprised that legions of fresh-faced pretty young girls declare that they're men and why should there then be a problem with 'getting a baby' from a surrogate in the same way they'd rock up to a barista and chirp 'hi, can I get a skinny latte?' before plugging themselves into their laptop in a corner of the coffee shop and getting online.

It's ridiculous, yes, but it just seems suspiciously like the same (mindless) mindset - especially when the same 'man' then expresses apparently genuine shock and astonishment at how hard it is to give birth.

Pesky reality, you see. How dare it break into your perfect little online bubble?

hackmum · 11/01/2019 09:39

I pointed this out earlier on the thread but I'm going to point it out again: he didn't say he found giving birth hard. In fact, he gave birth via caesarean section and found it straightforward. What he found hard was the process of being pregnant as a trans man.

Obviously I find the story as ludicrous as everyone else, but let's at least stick to the facts.

Zeugma · 11/01/2019 09:54

Noted, hackmum, but I think my point still stands.

Only women can carry children and give birth to them, whether vaginally or by caesarean.

ChattyLion · 11/01/2019 13:20

The Australian news source that was quoted in the OP was very strange to read.

While it mentioned ‘transition’ once, at no point did it use the word ‘transgender’. Meaning the reader has to work it out for themselves and the newspaper looks really a lot like it’s making a deal out of a materially relevant status (being trans) that it’s actually scared to name or that the paper thinks it’s offensive to name or (worst case scenario) the newspaper has decided it is inaccurate or untrue to name a trans person as a trans person.

But this type of forced journalistic speech and exceptionalism for a specific group of people- (putting trans people in a special category for how they can be written about, while pretending not to see this is being done and and refusing to name and acknowledge it is being done), is wrong because it forces pretending on the reader.

It is not OK for journalists to validate preferences to the extent of forcing mass pretending.

Also, journalists putting groups in a special category on the apparent basis that they can’t handle reading realistic factual description of themselves, is the exact opposite of being genuinely inclusive (and it is highly debatable if being inclusive is actually the job of journalism anyway- I want journalists to provide me with facts without bias or prejudice- not to provide universal validation which actively obscures reported facts...)

I do feel that journalists and TRA lobbyist organisations or anyone else doing this kind of patting on the head should be pulled up every time they do this in their published work.

There’s nothing wrong with being trans, there’s nothing wrong with being a transman like the person in this article. There’s also nothing wrong with a journalist or whatever third party naming trans status or trans identity or belief or whatever as part of describing someone.

But there IS very much something wrong with newspapers pretending to be blind to obvious facts or differences that are absolutely apparent to everyone (ie when someone who feels they are a man, or even someone in the UK who has a GRC saying they ARE a man for the purposes of their legal documentation, also being pregnant).

This journalistic pretence is patronising to basically everyone, causes cognitive dissonance, confusion not being able to understand the story properly or promotes false beliefs that men and women can change sex (in any meaningful way beyond meaning confined to their legal paperwork).

OK so TLDR; it would be really helpful if any MNers who understand the law and journalism in the UK or FPFW or WPUK or LAWS or someone- to get journalists to report correctly and fairly on news stories reporting on transgender people.

An informed group could work collectively produce a set of guidelines for journalism bodies in the UK- NUJ etc (but there must be other relevant training ones, and the university based journalism degree courses and for anyone training a journalist?) and also the in-house codes of conduct for fully-fledged journalists like the BBC reporting guidelines. What we need are guidelines that spell out clearly- with evidence legal backing- that

-using opposite sex pronouns is only fine or required in certain circumstances

  • that having a GRC doesnt mean the news story should describe the person without further context as being of the opposite sex to their biological sex
-that not having a GRC -if it isn’t known there is none- means automatically that -specific guidance around reporting in this area on children -etc. I am sure many of us would have ideas of principles or instances that need to be handled better

The women’s groups I mentioned above need not do this work themselves if they are not resourced to do so- but with their help we could start to lobby to get a journalists’ or legal body to do it (who would that be?) and then for them to write to all of the other journalists bodies, media outlets and everyone who trains journalists, to get them on board with developing and then implementing this new code or agreement about standards in media reporting in this area.

I am probably talking crap because I don’t know this area but I really hope someone will come along who does!

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 11/01/2019 13:21

I wonder if paternity rights are the same as maternity. Which would they claim? Both maybe...

FloralBunting · 11/01/2019 13:33

Got to say, I read the title of the thread and all I could think of was all the men of my acquaintance saying "Cheers mate. I'll make sure I don't get pregnant then, sounds rough."

ChattyLion · 11/01/2019 13:40

Sorry not sure what happened there, what I meant to say was:

^-*-that not having a GRC - or if it isn’t known there is one, because of course you can’t legally ask to see one- means that a person is NOT legally of the opposite sex to their biological sex, (because only having a GRC makes that happen legally).

So while it’s nice to be nice and polite with a person’s pronoun preferences etc, it won’t always be necessary or appropriate in all circumstances in media reporting, to refer to a person as if they are of the opposite sex to their biological sex.^

R0wantrees · 11/01/2019 21:04

he didn't say he found giving birth hard. In fact, he gave birth via caesarean section and found it straightforward. What he found hard was the process of being pregnant as a trans man.

Hadley said he found this hard and that it brought up a lot of feelings.

Hadley is very young to be going through pregnancy alone having used sperm donation.

Hadley also seemed to allude to the fact that having a child had improved relationships with his Mum (who had a child at the same time)

Its likely that there are many reasons why this could have been hard for Hadley, not just that they identify as transgender.

Some of the contributory factors which seem to influence female teenagers' gender dysphoria and need to 'transition' are known.

Simplifying what will be a complex situation either by media or trans rights organisations doesn't the help young people at the centre in the long term.

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