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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Veritas report due tomorrow (Thursday) at midday re: Aimee Challenor

616 replies

criticalthinking · 09/01/2019 14:24

Long time lurker, first time poster - subject says it all really.

OP posts:
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19
Datun · 13/01/2019 00:21

You can get a new birth certificate when you get your gender recognition certificate, I believe. Although I think they are linked. But I could be wrong.

Datun · 13/01/2019 00:21

Andy - your incredulity is unsurprising, believe me. This is an absolute shit show.

FlyingOink · 13/01/2019 00:26

AnyOldPrion
I'm not after salacious detail but can you elaborate for me and the lurkers? What kind of things don't result in an animal cruelty conviction? I thought if an animal wasn't kept appropriately that was it?

FlyingOink · 13/01/2019 00:28

the employer who also confirms the neccesary ID
That in itself is a huge loophole without training in how to spot counterfeit ID. Which is not easy.

R0wantrees · 13/01/2019 00:31

you forgot the birth certifificate for the DBS check?

andyoldlabour

You don't need to produce a birth certificate for DBS, there are a number of possible combinations of appropriate ID.

www.gov.uk/guidance/documents-the-applicant-must-provide

for people interested in DBS, there is a lot of information available!

R0wantrees · 13/01/2019 00:35

i'm a bit perplexed as to how a thread about the Veritas Green Party report has become all about DBS.

Political parties will likely not have much cause to require use them.

This doesn't mean that they shouldn't understand Safeguarding or that they don't have Safeguarding responsibilities.

AlexanderHamilton · 13/01/2019 00:37

Because we’ve moved onto the Scouts.

R0wantrees · 13/01/2019 00:54

I really do not know what "safeguarding" means, because I believe it to be what any company believes it to be, and it is not regulated by any laws, so therefore it is much akin to letting the fox wait outside the henhouse and then giving him a pair of wirecutters to get through the fence.

Safeguarding is informed by laws.

There is a useful history here:
www.lawgazette.co.uk/legal-updates/safeguarding--legislation-and-regulation-/5067477.article

Datun · 13/01/2019 00:55

Yes sorry ro, I know it's a bit of a derail.

But it's because

If you are asked to complete a DBS check and have a previous identity that you do not wish to be disclosed to your employer and/or on your DBS certificate, you should call or email the dedicated sensitive applications team before submitting your application. The team is experienced in dealing with sensitive cases and will advise you of the process and what you need to do.

Is so shocking to me. And I keep thinking I must've got it wrong. Because they are relying on self reporting.

www.gov.uk/guidance/transgender-applications

Datun · 13/01/2019 00:56

So I'm thinking whether you call or not, they will have your previous names. And you must call, to comply with the process (and ask for those names to be kept confidential).

But if you don't, they still have your names, so you can't just avoid it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/01/2019 00:58

This is now being reported in the Times too;

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/green-high-flyer-hid-father-s-rape-charges-kdhrfhll3

(Sorry, I don't have a subscription so can't do a share token)

R0wantrees · 13/01/2019 01:07

So I'm thinking whether you call or not, they will have your previous names. And you must call, to comply with the process (and ask for those names to be kept confidential).

There would be a gap though.
So the hypothetical Sophia Smith would not have any traces prior to her name and 'gender change' change.
With any DBS applicant this would be an issue.

R0wantrees · 13/01/2019 01:21

Sunday Times Andrew Gilligan,
'Green high-flyer Aimee Challenor hid father’s rape charges'

(extract)
"A paedophile rapist posed a “major safeguarding risk” to young Green Party members for almost two years because one of the party’s rising stars did not clearly tell colleagues that the man had been charged with serious sex crimes.

An independent investigation has found that Aimee Challenor, a transgender activist and candidate for the Greens’ deputy leadership, committed a “serious error of judgment” by appointing her father, David, as her agent at two elections even as he faced trial for kidnapping, raping and torturing a 10-year-old girl.

The inquiry, by the investigations consultancy Verita, criticised the Greens for treating the matter “primarily as a communications one” and “failing to see the safeguarding issues that arise”. The party’s “support for diversity” did not remove the need for someone like Aimee Challenor to have proper “training and support” in a leadership role, the investigators said.

A 17-page summary of the report was quietly published last week. However, the full 80-page report, seen by The Sunday Times, is more critical. It says Challenor, the Greens’ equality spokeswoman, had been guilty of a “serious omission” by not telling her local party and most national officials about her father’s charges.

Challenor blamed her autism for not doing so and told the inquiry: “At the end of the day you can’t go about telling every Tom, Dick and Harry.” The investigators said they found it “hard to understand some of Aimee’s actions and explanations”.

The omission allowed David Challenor to run his daughter’s office and mix with young activists and members’ children at events that included a picnic only weeks before his trial." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/green-high-flyer-hid-father-s-rape-charges-kdhrfhll3

R0wantrees · 13/01/2019 01:40

the conclusion to the Law Gazette article above may be quite helpful and is pertinent to the Veritas report and issues raised:

"Creating or simply maintaining this safe environment is not easy and it involves a great deal more than introducing policies and procedures. The types of solutions which have been applied across sectors include:

A code of conduct which establishes clear boundaries and with which all individuals working in an organisation, from most senior to most junior, are expected to comply.

An open culture where victims, their colleagues, witnesses – or anyone who just senses something is wrong – feel able to share concerns of inappropriate conduct, from the most serious allegations to lower level concerns.

Policies and procedures which entrench all of the above.

A system and culture of governance which ensures management fully implements safeguarding systems and no one is ever left unaccountable.

Employment practices which ensure that individuals found to have committed serious misconduct of this nature are dismissed and their references for future employment reflect that.

A protocol whereby statutory authorities are informed promptly when they need to be.

Conclusion
Any lawyer advising clients on safeguarding therefore needs to understand the overarching legislative structure, the relevant regulatory regime, and some of the safeguarding fundamentals outlined above in order to advise clients not only on how to achieve compliance but also to go beyond simple compliance in creating a safe environment for children. There can be little doubt that the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse and the light which it will shine on past institutional failings will lead to further significant legislative, regulatory and cultural change – but in light of the seriousness of past failings that can only be a good thing."

This would also apply to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Adults

PositivelyPERF · 13/01/2019 01:40

Fantastic R0wantrees. The cat is well and truly out of the bag now. That article is straight to the point with no fannying about.

SunsetBeetch · 13/01/2019 16:39

Excellent twitter thread from Dr Em.

twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/1084385680262877184?s=19

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084385680262877184.html

TimeLady · 13/01/2019 17:36

The mother's 'minimal' involvement comment is still bugging me.

Are they saying she was just a stooge, ie. not a real candidate, just a name on a voting slip? Because that's a pretty big betrayal of the 123* people who voted for her.

AC was the local membership secretary, so did AC enlist their mother as a member and put her forward as a candidate, knowing she was only prepared to have 'minimal' involvement? Shame on the Greens (and any other party doing this), if so.

theOtherPamAyres · 13/01/2019 19:08

The mother's 'minimal' involvement comment is still bugging me

The Green Party uses 'paper' candidates quite often. I think that Tina Challenor was a paper candidate.

The circumstances for using a paper candidate are usually:

  • there is absolutely no hope of getting enough votes to win the election because it's a traditional Labour/Conservative/LibDem seat
  • there are a small number of green voters in the ward/constituency and they want to show support for a green candidate.
-it's a cheap way for a cash-strapped party to take part in elections throughout the country.

Paper candidates are not expected to campaign, attend hustings or give interviews. They just lend their name for ballot purposes.

Lots of Green party members volunteer to be paper candidates.

ReflectentMonatomism · 13/01/2019 19:13

Lots of Green party members volunteer to be paper candidates.

I wonder how many Green voters volunteer to vote for paper candidates?

I’ve always regarded the Greens as a joke. That their members are happy to take the piss out of the electoral system by standing without any intention of every trying to win is shameful. In sports, “non tryers” are disqualified and punished. Joke party looks even more of a joke. At least the SNP candidates who were surprised to win in the last election have proved to be hard-working. The Greens in the same position would presumably just doss about.

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 19:24

Lots of political party members volunteer to be paper candidates.

Its not a practice restricted to the Greens. They all do it.

I think that 'volunteer' might be a term that is over stretched too. Much arm twisting can and does go on for candidates in places where there is no hope at all.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 13/01/2019 19:29

Excellent twitter thread from Dr Em

Flowers Flowers Flowers for all of Dr EM's meticulous work on this disturbing series of events, which has involved a fair few really stomach-churning primary sources

rubisco · 13/01/2019 20:21

I've been a paper candidate for the Labour Party. It's very common in unwinnable seats for all parties. People who are genuinely interested in running a campaign and in being elected will of course go to seats that they stand some chance of winning.

OlennasWimple · 13/01/2019 20:57

Much arm twisting can and does go on for candidates in places where there is no hope at all

And sometimes they even win

I know two MPs who stood for a "practice run in a seat that would never change hands" and got elected...

I don't think Mhairi Black expected to be elected quite so soon either

But the Green Party should have vetted any candidate a bit more closely, just in case something happened and they did indeed end up winning the seat, whether at Westminster, local council or any other body

AlexanderHamilton · 13/01/2019 20:59

The Lib Dem’s asked dh to be a paper candidate in our local council elections. He didn’t but it was because he was one of the only members in our small area.

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