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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jennifer Pritker & suicide stats

36 replies

Blistory · 09/01/2019 11:15

So, having read their opinion piece in the Washington Post

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-support-a-political-party-that-is-marginalizing-me-out-of-existence/2019/01/08/cc153f18-1373-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.908352d33683

I was curious about the stats that they were reporting based on this

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

I see that it's a much higher response group than the reports that Stonewall usually uses and I see that they specifically comment on the role that mental health plays in the higher figures and the difficulties which how respondents answer written questions on suicide (I think it implies that the wording of the question results in a higher than anticipated positive response to suicide attempts but could be wrong in my interpretation).

I can't help but wonder how suicide attempt is defined and the impact that this would have on the statistics. Surely such a high attempt % would result in a higher outcome of actual deaths ? Why do these reports only talk about attempts and not outcomes ?

And for the sake of those reading who will willfully misinterpret the above comments by me, no, I don't want transpeople attempting or succeeding at suicide. I don't want transpeople to suffer from discrimination. I don't want them to experience mental distress or suffering. I don't really want to have to highlight the issue at all but when it's being used as a tactic by pressure groups, in my opinion wrongly and to deliberately create an emotive response to trans ideology, it's only fair that we're able to examine the issue.

I have no comments on the actual article other than to wonder what
this crap means Femininity is my true north. Nah, Jen, femininity is a prison.

OP posts:
Bowlofbabelfish · 09/01/2019 12:12

The idea that someone disagreeing with you threatens your existence Is the mark of a narcissist.

Psychologically healthy people do not experience narcissistic injury. Nor do they encourage the spread of the idea that ideas can negate one’s existence.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 09/01/2019 12:16

Femininity is my true north.

Then be feminine. Be as feminine as you like. Just have the decency not to claim that makes you female or a woman.

QuietContraryMary · 09/01/2019 12:30

Remember that Jennifer Pritker is a mega-billionaire who funds TRA & is here essentially saying 'Republicans need to follow my views or I won't give them millions of dollars'

QuietContraryMary · 09/01/2019 12:30

Remember that Jennifer Pritker is a mega-billionaire who funds TRA & is here essentially saying 'Republicans need to follow my views or I won't give them millions of dollars'

QuietContraryMary · 09/01/2019 12:30

Remember that Jennifer Pritker is a mega-billionaire who funds TRA & is here essentially saying 'Republicans need to follow my views or I won't give them millions of dollars'

nauticant · 09/01/2019 12:41

I definitely won't forget it now!

happydappy2 · 09/01/2019 12:52

Quote 'Yet, the party continues to champion policies that marginalize me out of existence, define me as an eccentric character and persecute me for using the public restrooms that correspond to my gender identity.' Well Jennifer, you demand other people respect your pronouns and refer to you as 'she', yet you won't respect womens rights to sex segregated spaces, which are there for the SAFETY of women and children. If Jennifer ploughed money into providing 3rd spaces for transwomen they would get my respect.

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/01/2019 13:13

Jennifer’s existence is not threatened. Jennifer will continue to exist regardless of how many people point out that Humans cannot change sex.

Toilets are segregated on sex.

Humans cannot change sex.

Theblaws of physics and biology cannot be changed with money. However, it does seem that some people who have so much money that they are used to having their wants gratified without issue struggle with the idea. The search for validation, for reality to bend to one’s will Is doomed to failure long term. Wise people know this and folklore has multiple examples - Hence Cnut’s showing his followers he couldn’t stop the tide

However in the short to mid term, if you throw enough money at the problem, you (the generic you, of course) can engineer a social change where people act as though they believe what you want.

So I’ve asked the question ‘do you believe humans can change sex?’ Here and other places many times. Nobody has ever said yes. No one. No one believes it because it is so demonstrably untrue, and obvious. And yet huge pressure is being extorted to make people behave as if it was true, or as if they believe it is true.

That’s not a benign push. We all know what kind of societies, cultures and regimes force their populations to act like that.

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/01/2019 13:14

Exerted, not extorted- typo.

GrinitchSpinach · 09/01/2019 13:25

Blistory you may wish to ask Mumsnet HQ to edit your title, as the person's surname is Pritzker, not Pritker, and this thread may get missed if someone is doing a search for Pritzker, who is a huge source of funding for this agenda.

GrinitchSpinach · 09/01/2019 13:31

Pritzker's Tawani Foundation distributed $1,677,000 in grants in the area of "Gender and Human Sexuality" in 2017 alone. It funded the creation of a pediatric gender clinic in Chicago to the tune of hundreds of thousands.

Full list of grants can be seen here:
www.tawanifoundation.org/our-grants/

nauticant · 09/01/2019 13:31

Imagine having a couple of billion dollars and reality still disobeying you!

AspieAndProud · 09/01/2019 14:00

Never negotiate with someone who threatens suicide. Nobody who gets what they want by threatening their own life will stop at that.

Vegilante · 09/01/2019 14:21

Republican Jennifer Pritzker (with a z) is a leading funder of the transgender agenda in the US. Thanks to each one of them inheriting billions from the Hyatt Hotels empire, the Pritzker family is incredibly influential in the Democratic party as well. Cousin Penny Pritzker, a Democrat, was Obama's Sec'y of Commerce, & cousin J.B. (Jay Robert) is the new Democratic governor of Illinois. He is the second-wealthiest U.S. politician to have ever held elected office, after Michael Bloomberg. Given that many wealthy heirs of the Rockefeller fortune have held high elective office in the US, that's saying something.

The Pritzkers are people whose phone calls aren't just returned by the America's most powerful like Obama & the Clintons - they're picked up on the first ring. None of the Pritzkers are "persecuted" & no one is trying to "marginalize Jennifer out of existence". Such claims cannot be credibly made by a person who has spent most of "her" life as a military man whose male privilege is only enhanced by "her" race, money & power.

Jennifer Pritzker is also highly influential in Canada, where "she" has donated heavily to promote transgenderism as well.

Jennifer Pritzker ticks all boxes for autogynephilia. As is customary for AGPs, Jennifer Pritzker is heavily invested in promoting the medical transition of children.

Jennifer Pritzker has no compunction about citing trans suicide statistics that "she" & other TRAs know are false because AGPs of Jennifer's age & background (the military) are usually classic narcissists - & narcissists are inveterate liars.

Watch with the sound off:

terryleather · 09/01/2019 15:05

marginalizing me out of existence

What's that I hear...it's the sound of the tiniest violin playing for entitled agp narc-rage billionaire with lady feelings not getting their demands met - oh the humanity!

BettyDuMonde · 09/01/2019 15:18

Male people who threaten suicide are considered high-risk for committing homicide:

speakoutloud.net/intimate-partner-abuse/homicide-suicide

Pritzker’s got enough red flags to make bunting.

BettyDuMonde · 09/01/2019 15:26

In fact, Lieutenant Colonel Pritzker’s successful military background puts me in mind of Colonel Russell Williams:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6427169/How-Queens-cross-dressing-pilots-police-interview-gave-away-life-rapist-murderer.html

KindOfAGeek · 09/01/2019 18:17

Who funded that study? Has it been peer reviewed? Are there additional studies to compare it to? Methodology?

Caution on studies provided by US universities. Some academic studies are funded by grants to provide a result within specific parameters to confirm the grantmaker's bias- not always, but enough for caution. Especially with Pritzker

(This is how climate deniers got idea to say "scientists are making up climate change to make money." Corporations they're associated with that have paid universities, or research centers, to make stuff up for decades. Thank you for smoking.

This is also how we get results that drinking a glass of red wine gives the same health results as an hour workout at the gym.)

It would be good to get some real research done. Let's not knock that study out but it should be added to. Additional studies are needed for comparison. Peer review should be applied. Methodologies should be transparent, and forgawdsakes can't we start getting real stats from the government?

If the suicide state are so high we need to make public policy for prevention, it's time for the CDC or NIH in the US to do a thorough independent review.

Trump is gawdawful so that won't happen, but I'm betting Pritzger would be the first in line to object if a study was being done with an
impartial uncertain result.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 09/01/2019 18:21

Why do these reports only talk about attempts and not outcomes?

Because considering outcomes only minimises the suicide attempts made my women, who tend to succeed less than men and are thus designated "cries for help".
Considering successful suicides only makes it look like many more men attempt suicide than women.

heresyandwitchcraft · 09/01/2019 18:39

I can't help but wonder how suicide attempt is defined and the impact that this would have on the statistics. Surely such a high attempt % would result in a higher outcome of actual deaths ? Why do these reports only talk about attempts and not outcomes?

Suicide is really complex, and for many reasons I really dislike how the trans lobby talk about this sensitive subject.

Firstly, suicide attempt rates don't translate directly proportionately to actual deaths from suicide. Interestingly, there is a sexed difference in these. Females (biological ones) tend to attempt suicide at higher rates than males, and have higher rates of depression, but usually more males actually die from suicide. This may be due to males choosing more violent methods.

SO we don't know how these attempts translate for trans people. Obviously every attempt is one too many! But you need actual reliable numbers to work with. One problem is that nobody seems to be recording transgender deaths in official ways, so we don't have good data. This is the same for the murder rates.

The issue is that the trans lobby simultaneously wants us to believe that there is an epidemic of terrible proportions going on, with grave loss of life, yet gives us NO hard data or proper evidence, and prohibits us from using the tools needed to actually properly track/tackle the problem. Many TRAs argue it's too "outing" to create a trans category to try to capture such data, or that people would refuse to tick the "trans box"... So how are we to impartially collect the information, despite the fact it would be for their own community's benefit?

There's very little long-term follow-up studies medically of trans persons, either, which means we don't actually have much evidence that transition is the "cure all" that some trans activists pretend it is, nor the risks associated with it. A study has shown us that suicide and psychiatric issues remain a problem even after FULL medical and legal transition. We also don't know how much other factors are at play. For example, Depression or Borderline Personality Disorder puts you at higher risk of suicidality. Are therapists properly addressing co-morbidities in their rush to focus on gender? Is it possible that focusing on solely "gender identity" issues could obscure underlying problems and be too simple an explanation? By TRAs and their allies creating an affirm-or-nothing model, are they actually hurting our understanding of these issues and actually hurting some people who say they are trans?

These surveys are terribly subjective and could have any number of flaws. The first being that they don't actually track suicide numbers or decent investigation of mental health issues, just attitudes and feelings of those surveyed.
Remember that, thankfully , ALL of the people who respond to the survey are survivors. By design, surveys cannot capture reliable information of actual deaths.

Things to keep in mind with surveys:
-the data captured will be those for the kinds of people who are plugged in to the system enough to respond to a survey - they may not be representative of the whole (especially if they are distributed to people along ideological lines...)
-the questions could be worded ambiguously or people don't understand what they mean so you could have two different people having had the same kind of experience but classifying it differently
-what is the definition of trans? Is there a difference between married high-power cross-dressers and those that Blanchard would define as homosexual transsexuals who might be from an ethnic minority background and in severe financial difficulty? Do sexed differences between patterns remain even after transition?

Suicide is a very difficult topic, which cannot be reduced to one cause as a rhetorical political weapon. What trans activists are doing also has the potential to increase suicidal ideation in trans people by keeping a harmful narrative. The Samaritans has guidance on how to report it in the media responsibly (which a prominent trans activist and the Guardian memorably disregarded for a piece).

I feel there is an element of coercion here. If you say you will die if you don't get EXACTLY what YOU want from someone else, and the blood will be on the other person's hands, that reminds me of what an abusive partner might say to keep control. It's emotional manipulation. What TRAs are doing goes against everything we know about best practice to save lives from suicide.

I feel like LGB activists used to say "it gets better." Now, the tactics trans activists use sound... different. "Get over it," with accusations of "transphobe" and serious threats to anyone who dissents sounds quite a "do what I say or else" mentality. And that hurts everyone, including trans people.

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/01/2019 18:40

Trump is gawdawful

He is. Utterly awful. At the same time, I’m starting to understand why he was voted in. Trump IS the result of agendas like this - it’s partly a protest against the imposition of these things. Just like brexit was a fuck you to a perceived power/situation/agenda. (I voted remain)

PatPhoenix · 09/01/2019 18:55

THANK YOU HERESY for writing sense and fact about suicide. There is simply no end to the shit that is written and published about suicide and sucidality.

Agree totally with 'it gets better' morphing into 'it will only get better if you do exactly what I say and agree with my version of events, and if it doesn't get better for me, it's your fault'.

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