Jennifer Pritker & suicide stats

[Blistory]

So, having read their opinion piece in the Washington Post

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-support-a-political-party-that-is-marginalizing-me-out-of-existence/2019/01/08/cc153f18-1373-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.908352d33683

I was curious about the stats that they were reporting based on this

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

I see that it's a much higher response group than the reports that Stonewall usually uses and I see that they specifically comment on the role that mental health plays in the higher figures and the difficulties which how respondents answer written questions on suicide (I think it implies that the wording of the question results in a higher than anticipated positive response to suicide attempts but could be wrong in my interpretation).

I can't help but wonder how suicide attempt is defined and the impact that this would have on the statistics. Surely such a high attempt % would result in a higher outcome of actual deaths ? Why do these reports only talk about attempts and not outcomes ?

And for the sake of those reading who will willfully misinterpret the above comments by me, no, I don't want transpeople attempting or succeeding at suicide. I don't want transpeople to suffer from discrimination. I don't want them to experience mental distress or suffering. I don't really want to have to highlight the issue at all but when it's being used as a tactic by pressure groups, in my opinion wrongly and to deliberately create an emotive response to trans ideology, it's only fair that we're able to examine the issue.

I have no comments on the actual article other than to wonder what
this crap means Femininity is my true north. Nah, Jen, femininity is a prison.

Bowl

There is the "imposition of things" problem. There's also the "hate the truck with a gun rack but not the guy driving the truck with the gun rack" problem neither the left nor the right has dealt with in the US (and I assume the equivalent in the UK). Racism, class, elitism, working class, income inequality, free trade, prols and lumpenprols.

It's all very tricky and something most college graduates assume isn't a problem at all, or rather, it's not a problem the thing the other person is pointing out.

There's also the RW going whacko right after Reagan era policies started being undone and the left polarizing inadequately in response. Same time period with Thatcher, but I admit I'm not as versed in UK politics as I am the US.

Throw in Putin's internet army and.... well, democracy is NOT a spectator sport.

(I voted Hillary.)

And of course weaponized misogyny, but that's a problem on both sides with different spin.

weaponized misogyny, but that's a problem on both sides with different spin.

I am so freaking sick of leftist men telling me HRC was just "a flawed candidate" and we should all shut up about misogyny. Same dudes who in 2016 said, "Of course I'm ready to vote for a womanjust not that woman. If only Elizabeth Warren were running!" Now that EW is in, it's all, "Of course I'm ready to vote for a womanjust not that woman.."

I started a thread earlier eh h linked to 3 different studies (well reports of them) with alarming stats. But I'm afraid I've become rather sceptical. The attempted suicide data isn't collected by hospitals and other medical institutions - it's self-reported.

That is acknowledged as a very poor way of collecting this type of sensitive data. And to be very blunt, you would expect a correspondingly higher suicide rate. But that isn't the case. So either trans people who respond to surveys are not clear about what attempted suicide means, they're exaggerating, they're making it up or they're spectacularly ineffective.

I don't know what the truth is but it isn't the suicide stats.

Never negotiate with someone who threatens suicide. Nobody who gets what they want by threatening their own life will stop at that.

THIS.

Sorry other thread: Another ad for Mermaids on the BBC News homepage www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3473985-Another-ad-for-Mermaids-on-the-BBC-News-homepage

There are links in the article, one of which links to NHS nurse guidance written by Press for Change. I'd love someone who understands data sets to review this

The attempted suicide data isn't collected by hospitals and other medical institutions - it's self-reported.

YY. We have reasonably good data on completed suicides, and it doesn't bear this out.

GrinitchSpinach

My most feminist of all feminist moments are those times I see clearly men really do think differently about women than they do men (besides sex and mother), and think we buy their explanations for it.

That is acknowledged as a very poor way of collecting this type of sensitive data.

The Williams Institute themselves even acknowledge this in the limitations of their main trans report which is quoted most often.

There is simply no end to the shit that is written and published about suicide and sucidality.
Thanks and the issue is so tricky, I just write what I believe I know about the subject. It's very dangerous to simplify something like suicide the way TRAs do, especially when (I suspect) they may have some sort of interest in using any data for a political purpose. For example, justifying the risks of medical transition for young people (where any hesitation means a child might die?).

For example, when you look at the GIDS evidence page for UK trans-identified children:
Yet it is also true that many young people who present to gender services are not necessarily distressed. Young people who are well supported by their family and receiving ongoing psychological support, seem to cope well with their gender incongruence (de Vries et al, 2015). Similarly, suicide is extremely rare.
gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

ALSO:

Never negotiate with someone who threatens suicide. Nobody who gets what they want by threatening their own life will stop at that.

THIS.

THIS.