Where will identity politics and intersectionality go next?

[MarshmallowSnowDon]

So I can see how feminism and the victimhood/oppression narrative within it lead to the recent trans rights movement, and I can see why women would been seen to be more oppressed than men but not as oppressed as trans people. I believe that under this type of thinking (group rights as opposed to individual rights) the rights of the most oppressed are protected first so a trans women’s right to use a female changing room (under this way of thinking) would trump a women’s right not to share a female only space with someone with a penis, but where does this go next? I don’t know but I predict that in 2019 we will see the BAME pay gap (where it exists) take more prominence in the media. And maybe even some white women and men in the BBC taking pay cuts if it turns out that people of colour are being paid less than them. A relative of mine working in the public sector has already been told she can’t do a management training course because it is reserved for BAME people. I imagine this will become more common in the effort to equalise outcomes across multiple groups now that having equality of outcome and not equality of opportunity has become firmly established as a goal in the mind of the establishment. What do you think 2019 will bring?

It is,an interesting question. Worryingly, the MAPs (old-school paedophiles) seem to be making concerted efforts at the moment to have their identity validated and seem to be gaining a little traction among the wokest of woke.

Sorry marshmallow but I this will happen. There will be no requirements for white people to take pay cuts to address the bame pay gap. Only the BBC did this with the pay gap between men and women and this was because of the size of the salaries they couldn't just even them up.

Also what I hate most about this whole debate is when it is used to bash minorities who are genuinely oppressed. I guess that was the aim of the MRAs all along. Get special protections for themselves and decrease sympathy for other minority groups.

Will not happen

I think the next step will be incest rather than Didn’t Pink News do a feature on it recently? Sex with kids is definitely a long term goal for some in the identity politics game but that would be much easier if sex within the family is normalised first.

The organisation I used to work for was running courses to encourage BAME people into management 25 years ago. That's not a new thing.

See how people claim 'feminism has gone too far'? See how easily women's rights have been erased? That's the future for LGB & T people.
Watch out for a totalitarian backlash which includes biometric identity cards.

Agree. It is very worrying.
Despite lip service, the 'woke' don't really care about bame people or disabled people or working class people any oppressed group. Look at the speed at which they get behind any demand made by white middle class males. That is your signpost to where this might go next.

You are mistaken. 25 years ago there were opportunities such as training specifically for disabled people, women and BAME people. 25 years ago was the mid '90's, not the 1970's.
An adjustment for a specific group is not discriminating against anyone else.

Identity politics on the left is over reaching.

There is much to suggest identity politics on the right (nationalism and religious identity primarily) will backlash against it.

It'll be a further polarisation of these ideologies simply because nothing is emerging in the centre to moderate these views.

Identity politics is not a new thing. Its a highly dangerous thing from which toxic tribalism, puritanicalism and patriotism have always originated.

If you are no worried, you should be. We have politician strongly pushing it without thought to the consequences.

Marshmallow I suggest you look up the difference between positive discrimination and positive action. One is legal in the UK (and has been for a long time) and the other is not.

“Agree. It is very worrying.
Despite lip service, the 'woke' don't really care about bame people or disabled people or working class people any oppressed group. Look at the speed at which they get behind any demand made by white middle class males. That is your signpost to where this might go next.”

It’s not just middle class males. There seem to be just as many overly “woke” women as there are men. Probably more overly woke women actually, which is not surprising really as more women than men are at university nowadays. I agree they are almost entirely middle class though and that they don’t really give a shit about the genuinely disadvantaged either. The genuinely disadvantaged are the poor/working class. In the U.K. if you are born without disabilities into a loving well to do family and go to a good school your life chances are pretty good, doesn’t matter so much about your race, religion, gender or anything else. If you get a good upbringing, a good school and strong family support you are lucky and likely to succeed. Likewise if you are born on a slum council estate your life chances are much poorer than anyone who is middle class, even if you are white and male. In fact white working class men are a group that do very badly in this country. You only need look at the comments of any guardian article (especially when Brexit is the topic) to see what the woke right on middle class actually think of the genuinely disadvantaged. I think this why they have gender and ethnic diversity employment targets at elite institutions but rarely have social class targets. Because they couldn’t care less about gender or ethnicity as long as the person is middle class and thinks like them.

“vicviking

Marshmallow I suggest you look up the difference between positive discrimination and positive action. One is legal in the UK (and has been for a long time) and the other is not.”

I have asked the moderators to delete my post. If it’s not correct it should probably be deleted.

I'm surprised its news to you. But does that new information change your opinion in any way?

Yes, I have withdrawn the post and will check if what I believe is true, is actually true before making the statement again. I might be right. But if I am wrong I’m wrong is it really a big deal to me to be found to be wrong about something? I still don’t understand the difference though.

Yes and no about white working class men doing badly. Traditionally there were lots of routes out of working class backgrounds for white males. Less so now. This has been caused by relatively recent economic factors that has made it harder for some of them to get good jobs. Fewer semi skilled jobs that pay well and don't require good qualifications. Crap schools make it harder to get good qualifications. Jobs that are available are often in service industries which may be less attractive to some of them and don't pay as well as those semi skilled jobs.

But the crap job situation affects all working class people and not just working class white males.

Oh and being middle class may make things easier but it doesn't mean they would never experience racial or sexual discrimination.

Watch out for a totalitarian backlash which includes biometric identity cards.
I don't have a problem with ID cards. One of the reasons we have people living and working under the radar, including unregistered births of children who are then sold to paedophiles, and slaves living in sheds, is because we don't have or require ID cards or registration of foreign nationals. I used to be against the idea but I changed my mind the more I read about it and the more I learned from others.
It's also one of the main pull factors for migrants, the second being the English language.

So I can see how feminism and the victimhood/oppression narrative within it lead to the recent trans rights movement

Huh? Why are feminists responsible for transactivism?

incest

Talking of incest I only recently learnt that sex between family members is legal once you are 18. I learnt that gem, along with many other things I'd never known before, from Justin Hancock's BISH site aimed at kids14+. He seems to advise the government on PSHE as well as go into schools to teach it.

Fewer semi skilled jobs that pay well and don't require good qualifications. Crap schools make it harder to get good qualifications. Jobs that are available are often in service industries which may be less attractive to some of them and don't pay as well as those semi skilled jobs.
The issue with this is that those semi skilled jobs still exist, they are either done abroad link or we import the skilled labour to save employers' training costs link.
We might not make as many fridges as we used to but we still have a power network,a phone network, water, sewage, undersea cabling, a car parts industry, we make furniture, computer parts, spirits, petroleum products, nuclear power, roads, houses, bridges, hospitals, wool, meat, milk, etc, etc which all needs to be itemised, quality controlled, priced, bought, warehoused, transported, perhaps exported, perhaps retailed.
There's a lot of semi skilled work to be done for some massive industries, there's a lot of training that could be carried out, there's even the opportunity to develop people, processes and ideas.
I'm only saying this because many posters on this board work in education or human resources (from what posters themselves have said) and I want to make the point that the UK isn't just degree>office, there are lots of fulfilling careers out there and worthwhile jobs to do that have been undervalued by employers because of their ability to offshore work and import ready made talent. As those two examples above show, it has been a deliberate sabotage of UK working conditions in some cases, and as a trade union member I stand against it in all sectors.

The BISH guy has interesting factoids about fucking in the family on his sex site for kids, does he?

Well I never.

The BISH guy has interesting factoids about fucking in the family on his sex site for kids, does he?

He did although after a previous thread on here he seemed to delete several of those factoids (e.g. some of his legal stuff went and some S&M entries) I suppose he didn't want us woman and mums thinking badly of him?

The thing to watch for is leaving the ECHR.
Many want to do it.

We can't do it unless we No Deal.
And that alone is one reason why some will do ANYTHING to ensure there is no deal.