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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Radio 4 'The Art of Now' Sohrab Ahmari argues that contemporary art is being stifled by an obsession with identity politics.

27 replies

R0wantrees · 03/01/2019 12:01

Just been on:
"The art world is in a crisis, an identity crisis. That’s according to writer and art critic Sohrab Ahmari in this impassioned polemic, He argues that contemporary art is being stifled by an obsession with identity politics.

Identity politics in art is certainly nothing new, nor is the criticism of contemporary art. However, Sohrab argues that art’s current infatuation with identity politics is going too far.

Whether it’s artwork dealing with race relations, sexuality, gender, power or privilege, Sohrab says a desire for political point-scoring in the art world has far-reaching consequences - not only does it affect the quality of the artwork itself, but it also fuels narcissism, social division and political conformity.

Speaking to artist and critic Alexander Adams, Sohrab hears how identity politics drives artists to only create work about their own lived experience and results in a bland wash of politically correct slogans.

So what’s driving these artists to pursue identity politics? Sohrab speaks to the current crop of young impassioned artists to find out how and why identity politics features in their work. They suggest that art can and should be a tool for bringing about societal change.

So what’s at stake? Central to this programme is Sohrab’s concern that identity politics threatens art’s traditional search for truth, freedom and beauty. Moreover, in the current climate where activists are calling for certain artworks to be destroyed, he argues that, far from bringing the art-loving public together, identity politics is increasingly dividing us."

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

OP posts:
userschmoozer · 03/01/2019 12:06

activists are calling for certain artworks to be destroyed
WTAF.

hipsterfun · 03/01/2019 12:19

Heartening that we’re beginning to hear mainstream critique.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 03/01/2019 12:25

activists are calling for certain artworks to be destroyed

No other group has ever done this in living memory.... Nope none.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 03/01/2019 12:25

I caught some of this and it sounded interesting.

QuaterMiss · 03/01/2019 12:29

Will listen later.

If that is what he's saying he's very brave. Some artists are learning that it's safer to keep their mouths shut and not go up against the prevailing (deeply misguided) rhetoric of powerful institutions.

...

GCAcademic · 03/01/2019 12:32

I'll have a listen to this later. Yes, there was a case of a Students Union office at Southampton who wanted to tear down mural of students killed during WW1 because they were all white men! Historical facts are not inclusive enough, apparently! Not sure if that's what the interviewee was discussing?

GCAcademic · 03/01/2019 12:33

Officer, not office.

Imnobody4 · 03/01/2019 16:47

I think he's spot on. Art should explore the human condition. Identity politics just projects ego without reflection or curiosity. A bit of reflection would lead to humility in the certainty of changing society for the better (road to hell and all that) I'm sick to death of it.

Vegilante · 03/01/2019 16:54

activists are calling for certain artworks to be destroyed

Of course they are. Just like ISIS & the Taliban destroying antiquities.
In this brave new world of gender bollocks & me me me, woke works like this should be the only kind of "art" allowed:

BlytheSpiritsSpirit · 03/01/2019 16:59

Destroy art.
Rewrite history.
Stifle free speech.
Inhibit scientific inquiry.

So beautiful, so brave.

GobBluthsSegway · 03/01/2019 17:22

I am listening to this right now and so far it's been very shaky. It builds on the premise that there is a "crisis in art" but doesn't really offer anything in the way of proof.

At one point he implied that there is public funding for this kind of art (what kind of art he is talking about isn't clear but it seems to be left wing political art) but didn't actually cite any evidence for this.

The premise also seems to be that the art he is talking about is objectively bad. He has offered a single example of this kind of art which sounded hideous and had a rambly, right on, faux intellectual description to go with it.

Anyway I am 10 minutes in maybe it will get better?

Theinconstantgardener · 03/01/2019 17:27

I heard this and was cheering at his scathing put down of current identity obsession. Some of the students interviewed who were arguing art isnt political enough were at Goldsmiths!

GobBluthsSegway · 03/01/2019 17:37

Some of the students interviewed who were arguing art isnt political enough were at Goldsmiths

Do you not think the young lad who argued that it was a fallacy that museums and galleries used to be politically neutral spaces made a good point?

2rebecca · 03/01/2019 17:47

I heard this and agreed with the general gist. What happened to just creating things of beauty and wonder? Why does modern art have to have a point or be "challenging?" They made the point that no-one wants to fork out their own money to see or watch this stuff because it is too up its own arse and all about the artist not the audience.

EJennings · 03/01/2019 17:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AspieAndProud · 03/01/2019 20:03

A lot of great art is political; but it is great art first and political second. It’s not the politics that affords it it’s greatness.

AspieAndProud · 03/01/2019 20:10

Who looks at Picasso’s Guernica and thinks ‘We’ll, the proportions are all wrong - but I agree with the sentiments.’

EJennings · 03/01/2019 20:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Neurotrash · 03/01/2019 20:58

Oooooh this is right up my street. I wasn't aware of this hitting art. I studied 20 years ago when it was all BODY SHOCK and installations.

FWIW, Johnathan Yeo's recent work explored the idea of perfection in the human body through surgery, including trans operations.

www.jonathanyeo.com/read_more/

Neurotrash · 03/01/2019 20:58

Oooooh this is right up my street. I wasn't aware of this hitting art. I studied 20 years ago when it was all BODY SHOCK and installations.

FWIW, Johnathan Yeo's recent work explored the idea of perfection in the human body through surgery, including trans operations.

www.jonathanyeo.com/read_more/

KenDoddsDadsDogsDead18 · 03/01/2019 21:53

I listened to this and felt that it was pussy footing around the issues. I sense the presenter has stronger concerns but possibly the programme editors dumbed it down to take out the toxicity. The show ended up with sound bites but not saying much at all.

Manick who was part of the show today has had a lot to say on identity politics in art but his interview was really limited. I wondered what was taken out.

I could be completely wrong but to me there was a lot of dancing around the issues, in the way we have come to expect from the BBC.

GobBluthsSegway · 04/01/2019 04:05

But there is a difference between art with political content and art that is didactic

So? And what? Is one bad art?

Honestly if you listen to the actual content of the show I am not sure what is so controversial about the art he is speaking about. Some of the artists who are the implied "problem" have views that are mirrored on this board constantly.

There is no mention of this art that people want destroyed either. He talks about a piece of art depicting the open coffin of a black american child that was lynched. The artist was white and a black artist held a silent protest as they felt it in poor taste that a white person would profit from the childs death. The show implied that the protest gained momentum but I didn't hear anything about anybody suggesting it should be destroyed. I can certainly see the protesting artists point of view but I am against the idea of telling anybody what they can and can't speak about based on their race or political class.

The whole show is based on the idea that there is a crisis in art based on identity politics and it is has taken over the "art world". I don't know what goes on the in the art world but I find this hard to believe and no evidence is offered.

Neurotrash · 04/01/2019 06:37

I need to listen to it to critique it.

I have a relative who is an art critic/ historian so I may try asking her sometime. Not this country though so not sure when.

GCAcademic · 04/01/2019 07:10

This is the incident Gob refers to: it took place at the Whitney Biennial a couple of years ago:

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/02/emmett-till-painting-reopened-america-wounds-race-exploitation-dana-schutz

I think it’s true that there is an overemphasis on identity politics in contemporary art, but I don’t believe that we’re at a stage where calls to remove or destroy works are being taken in any way seriously. If anything, there has been very strong public reaction against the censorship of art - e.g. Sonia Boyce’s removal of Waterhouse’s Hylas and the Nymphs at Manchester Art Gallery, and the SU officer at Southampton I mentioned above were pretty much universally condemned, even by Guardian readers and students.

As an academic I am much more concerned by the activism that’s currently taking place around “liberating the curriculum” which is calling for inclusive syllabus that covers issues of gender identity (often sex isn’t mentioned at all), race, disability, sexual orientation, etc,
and which is reflective of what the student body supposedly is today, regardless how awkwardly this sits with the discipline’s productions and concerns. A module on - for example - eighteenth century literature cannot logically accommodate these kinds of concerns in any sustained way, yet that is what we are under pressure to do, to distort historical developments to fit with students’ perceptions of themselves.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/01/2019 07:14

I listened to this and it gently had a dig at identity politics.

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