MTV star Lachlan Watson's gender trip

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www.mtv.com/news/3107736/lachlan-watson-non-binary-journey/
Here's a celebrity saying how they went from lesbian ish (age 13) to You-tube transed, to non binary. Then went ahead with the mastectomy anyway. Fascinatingly weirdly encouraging.

What do you make of this latest trend setting?

Encouraging? Really?

So she stars in a teen drama pushing all this gender/queer identity rubbish.

I'm guessing the people that look up to and are likely to emulate Lachlan Watson are confused teens. Thing is they won't have the talent, the beauty, the money or the luck she has. It's a bit like the young boys who had their first tattoo wanting to look like David Beckham but are now overweight 30 year olds with a big black blobs on their backs.

But it will be much, much worse!

From the article:

"For the entirety of puberty I ran into that, where every problem that I had with my body wasn’t that I wanted to be male; it was specifically that I didn’t want the world to look at my body and inherently deem me female and inherently decide just by looking at me what I can or cannot do, how I’m supposed to sound, what I’m supposed to say, what my career is going to look like, how I’m supposed to act, my mannerisms. Everything could have been deemed by taking one look at my body because society assumes that’s what we’re bred and born to do,” he said of the gender dysphoria — a psychology term to describe the emotional effects a person experiences when there’s a disconnect between their gender identity and biological sex — he endured throughout Acts 1 and 2. “Seeing myself as female every time I look in the mirror is painful in a way I will never be able to describe.”

Feeling like this has led to the speaker having a mastectomy aged 17.

This is a trend I am recently noticing more and more in the very woke corner of the world where I live- young women (all same sex attracted) identifying as non-binary, using they pronouns, going by a gender-neutral name and having double mastectomies. However they are not identifying as trans men or taking testosterone, and there doesn't seem to be any plan to do so, non binary isn't a "gateway drug" so to speak.

I'm a little bit baffled by it and can't decide if it's a tiny step in a saner direction... or really what on earth is going on here. Clearly it's a quite tragic and misguided way of trying to opt out of society's expectations of the female, but it also just seems to be really faddy at the moment.

There's nothing encouraging about other forms of self hate or dysphoria, so you have to ask why is this manifestation of self hate tolerated, let alone pushed by governments?

Chopping your tits off doesn't even stop the world perceiving you as female. It's in the face and voice and overall size/shape.
Lots of obviously female pp are flat chested.

And it's the most twattish thing ever to force people to use counter-intuitive pronouns, especially "they/them" which make no grammatical sense when actually used.

A double mastectomy is a significant surgical intervention, with multiple risks.
Agree that taking testosterone on top of this surgery is worse, but this is not harmless.
It also reinforces the idea that women with breasts are “choosing” to be objectified and subject to the feminine gender role.
No thanks.

Ok, here is a thinking out loud moment...

During puberty I and many of my peers felt out of place, not understood, wanted to change the world, and wanted to rebel against expectation.
It was what teens did, but as every prior generation before us had done, we felt we were the real deal and really meant it this time...

I fast forward to today, and there is a new way to protest, to rebel and to escape (seemingly). A way to escape the mixed up feelings you have. It's to escape your sex and become a different gender. To a teenager it is a plausible explanation for the feelings inside. It's an attractive proposition to dabble in being the opposite gender, and it's a cause worth fighting for...

It is so compelling, many teens have chosen this option, just as former generations chose free love, or green hair. Only this time, the course of action can result in permanent life changes.

In some ways my thoughts might sound like I am reducing transexuality to passing fad. A result of teenage angst. And whilst for some it could be a far more complex psychological or physiological phenomenon, could it not be true that transexuality is the current generation's cause?

If a teen is not happy with their life, the new option is to radically redefine it, not to wait for it to evolve.

torn Now that plastic surgery is more acceptable / available, it seems like the cat is out of the bag.

We didn’t complain as much when really young women and teens had breast enhancement surgery because they were dissatisfied with their bodies. We should have shouted louder then - we were setting a precedent for the whole idea of making surgical changes to perfectly healthy, functioning bodies. That whole premise is wrong.

It’s not such a big step from making breast unrealistically large and oddly shaped to making them totally flat.

Yes, the seed was initially sewn when we allowed people to believe their bodies were the problem and enhancement was the solution.
When that didnt work, the next wave is that it's the wrong body entirely.

I'm poised to suggest it's our wrong thinking that is the issue, but someone will then develop brain swapping as a solution.

Urbanbeetler has it exactly right. How do we get across to young people that it's societal stereotyping that's wrong, not their bodies?

Sadly we are the society that has made so much of image and continue to do so.

This is awful. I developed early and was sexually harassed at school by boys and had girls jealous and spiteful. That trend extended throughout my twenties. I'm nothing special but did end up with 32GG breasts on a slender frame.

I was told by society I was sexually attractive and therefore I should be proud. Before I was sexually active.

I had a breast reduction when I was 30 and it was amazing. People changed how they reacted to me. The type of men looking at me in the street changed and I've had women (who don't know my history) mention things about large chested women that I knew were said about me. Off-hand comments suggesting I was flirting when I wasn't at all, or flashing boobs when I was wearing the same type of top as them, no cleavage showing.

If I was given the opportunity to cut off my breasts as a teenager, I'd have done it.

I'm uncomfortable with them now as I've put on weight (I remind myself that my belly is bigger than my boobs though and I find that reassuring!!).

If we started to look at individuals' mental health as a reflection of society, rather than an individual pathology, we may be able to actually make lives better. And that includes individuals understanding their mental health (I'm using that term widely to include self-image etc, not pathology) in the context of the society they live in.

The thing is, Torn, we have multiple, distinct populations that activists have pulled together under the trans umbrella - and teen angst/ROGD is one of them. The question we need to be asking is cui bono? Which groups does this conflation suit and which groups have the potential to be collateral damage?

In North America, some young people identifying as Non-Binary (& other gender identities) are accessing medical interventions:

'The Uncharted Territories of Medically Transitioning Children'
recent article by Donna Reynolds
(extract)
"Who’s Leading Whom—and Where?

A January 2018 Washington Post piece highlighted the services provided by the UCSF Child and Adolescent Gender Center:

The type of services being requested has also changed. Clinicians say they are no longer taken aback by youths seeking some kind of boutique treatment — often “just a touch of testosterone” for an androgynous, nonbinary identity.

“It’s the children who are now leading us,” said Diane Ehrensaft, the director of mental health for the clinic. “They’re coming in and telling us, ‘I’m no gender.’ Or they’re saying, ‘I identify as gender nonbinary.’ Or ‘I’m a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I’m a unique gender, I’m transgender. I’m a rainbow kid, I’m boy-girl, I’m everything.’”

Dr Ehrensaft is wrong. Children aren’t leading the charge in this field, and limitless gender fluidity isn’t an idea that springs unbidden from the minds of adolescents. These are post-modern gender concepts developed by academics and released into the infosphere where they can be absorbed by kids who are bored, troubled, or seeking new and creative ways to freak out their parents.

The boutique response to adolescent gender games is likely a small part of what the UCSF Child and Adolescent Gender Center does, but that they indulge them at all seems frivolous and unworthy of the children and adults who genuinely suffer. And as the long-term effects of such interventions are unclear, it also seems risky.

Gender dysphoria isn’t new, but the treatment options and the evolving demographics are. Clinicians are in the unenviable position of having to make Solomonic judgments about how best to treat a changing patient population. And given the response by academics and activists to conservative treatment approaches, some practitioners may feel pressured to approve transitional therapies that are safe from professional censure but inappropriate for the patient. They may remember that an Ohio couple lost custody of their child for refusing to authorize hormone therapy, and that Kenneth Zucker’s clinic was shuttered, and that Lisa Littman’s research was sandbagged." (continues)
quillette.com/2018/12/29/the-uncharted-territories-of-medically-transitioning-children/

These are post-modern gender concepts developed by academics and released into the infosphere where they can be absorbed by kids who are bored, troubled, or seeking new and creative ways to freak out their parents.

And, as per another thread, if parents object to these concepts being taught as facts in schools, activists and politicians accuse them of calling for a new Section 28.

The thing is, Torn, we have multiple, distinct populations that activists have pulled together under the trans umbrella - and teen angst/ROGD is one of them. The question we need to be asking is cui bono? Which groups does this conflation suit and which groups have the potential to be collateral damage?

I agree, I was trying to make the point that offering some teenagers a supposed 'reason' for their internal feelings and having a supposed solution (to change gender) suits those transexuals wishing to treat sex as fluid. It's using younger vulnerable people to meet their own ends either by persuading them that they themselves are trans, or that trans are a highly oppressed minority who need support to rage against the machine that is gender critical feminism (not that such a thing exists), or misinterpreted transphobia.

Only time will tell, but I dread to imagine how some trans will feel in 10-20 years times. Will they have been right all along, and they are now with the right gender and body, or will they remain in an unsettled state, or worst of all deeply regret the choices made when younger?

My gut instinct is that the increased prevalence of trans must include a fair few who have been drawn into it / persuaded / brainwashed because they were young and encouraged to make a choice too soon. That's tragic.

I think it all hinges on whether or not we can defeat an ideology that says the only "real" thing is a person's subjective thoughts about themselves and that bodies, together with other material realities, are mere chimera.

Why can’t boobs be non binary?

Absolutely correct that the children aren't leading us, they are being led.
They are being offered a persuasive interpretation of sex - 'be what you want to be'. Who wouldn't vote for that?

However, in the process of 'being who they want to', the initial euphoria of feeling liberated can result in believing that they will always feel that way. For instance a teenager not feeling comfortable in their body could be persuaded they are in the wrong body. They change gender (role) and find it liberating. Having done that, it doesn't take a lot more persuasion to start having permanent changes made... via medication / surgery. Feel good as the opposite sex? - great, let's go the full hog.
It's too young, it's too rapid and it's too fucking drastic.

That's why it important to hold on to the fact that we are talking about a quasi-religion. The only way you can get through to cult converts is to sow doubt in their minds about their convictions, and these convictions have been laced with cod science, so real science is the only way to knock the fake stuff away.

And ultimately it rests on saying "Look,if that's what you truly believe about yourself, I can't stop you, but you can't force your beliefs on everyone else'. A combination of the basic rules and limits around religious freedom, a solid scientific takedown of the lies, and adults understanding the importance of safeguarding again, would seem to be the best course.

I hate all this ‘you are special, you are unique - your body is wrong so change it medically’. How is that ‘being you’?

Why can’t boobs be non binary?

They can can't they?
I'm at a complete loss as to how non-binary works within a physical binary body.

To my simple mind, it sounds like 'I don't feel black, and I don't feel white, but I have a black body' - so if someone is 'transitioning' as a non-binary, are they just saying 'but of the two, I'd still rather have a white body?' - so I feel a little bit more white than black, but still feel somewhere in-between?

It’s all just a load of cack isn’t it?🥺