Jordan B Peterson

[CandyTiger]

I was given '12 rules for life' by the above author. At first I was insulted that the person who gave me this book, actually thought I needed a self-help book (I don't btw).

I decided to read it anyway. I am not really impressed by the so called 'intellectual' Peterson. He has a bit of a reputation for arguing with feminists.

I am very interested in what other people think of Peterson.

Thanks, in advance.

I don’t think he had an incredibly privileged upbringing. I know the murky backwater he comes from. That would have required considerable hard work and resilience to crawl out of. Canada is less class based however so hard work does go further than in the UK.

Tessliketrees

I have no idea why you like Ben Shapiro so much but it comes across as really weird. Unless your his Mum or something you have no idea what he is like as a person so do get fucked implying he is morally superior to me by drawing a false equivalence

What on earth are you on about? I wasn't even the person who first referred to Shapiro on this thread. I have mentioned him twice. I haven't referred or replied to you at all. I was referring to Miffer's ridiculous "he's a cunt" attack - not you.

Who are you to tell a poster who has not even engaged with you to "get fucked"?

( oh and it is "unless you're his mum)

BWatch - that's a fair point.

I guess I probably meant in the big picture - in that he is a white, able bodied male in a Western country. So in the grand scheme of things. I wasn't suggesting that he was born with a silver spoon or anything.

Men are order, women are chaos
This is just another version of men are from Mars women are from Venus

I think he aims his books at people who don't really have the brain power to properly unpick his arguments....people who just swallow them whole because they like them

userschmoozer

That link nicely backs up the "Youtuber" thing.

Peterson says I choose my words very very carefully
Peterson says that women are chaos
His book he has titled 12 rules .....an antidote to chaos
An antidote is something given to counteract a poison, something which we used to stop the effects of a bad thing

Women are bad and poisonous he wants to stop them

I find it upsetting that posters on a feminism board are repeatedly using the 'c' word to refer to someone they don't like.

Wordthe - I very much get that impression from his words.

Women should be married off and having babies, because that's what women do. While the men are strong, and rule and stuff...He has a very, very conservative view when it comes to women and sex roles - that is the very epitome of anti-feminism imo.

There are more female NEETs than male but sure... think of the imaginary men

Wouldn’t a lot of these women be mothers though? At least they are contributing something unlike these worthless dudes.

I think it is the circles I run in (DH was big into gaming at one point) but I do know a lot of young men hopelessly addicted to video gaming and internet porn with strange views on women. Peterson has helped a handful of the ones I know get more structure in their life and work on themselves; I do think this is a postive thing, which is why I give him some credit. I think if I had not seen this firsthand, I’d definitely think less of him.

He quite obviously believes in some quite traditional things, though, I think he’d like to see some of these men become more “marriageable” and participate in society. I have no problem with this.

He has very little to say to women. He seems to think most women would be quite satisfied with a good husband/provider and children, maybe a career they are suited to. It’s too old-fashioned for my taste.

Of course, he literally married the girl next door so I wonder how much he actually understands about modern dating and such. Has he ever even had a relationship another woman except his wife? It’s very atypical.

He’s overall a strange guy, but I do appreciate what he’s doing with this particular subset of young men.

Terfing

I find it upsetting that posters on a feminism board are repeatedly using the 'c' word to refer to someone they don't like

To be 100% clear , I agree with you. I have quoted other posters - I would never use that word to describe anyone.

I saw him in a debate about political correctness with Stephen Fry against a woman and a black guy. Peterson said something along the lines of disagreeing with people putting themselves in groups and wanting special treatment because of that group. The black guy quite rightly pointed out that he wasn’t the one putting himself in a group but that he was put in that group and treated differently regardless - racism, black kids more likely to be shot and so on.
Peterson got very upset at the idea that as a white man he might also be in a group and that group might receive better treatment - kept asking that it be quantified exactly what percentage of his success was due to white privilege and suggesting that because that question couldn’t be answered, the notion was nonsense.

I wasn’t particularly impressed, his tendency to use 500 words when 10 would do made it hard to unpick what his actual point was, and he kept asking stupid or unclear questions and then claiming triumph when the other side couldn’t answer to his satisfaction, while avoiding addressing their actual points.

I watched that debate a while ago, noble. I remember thinking the black guy had the patience of a saint, and was clearly very frustrated by Peterson's refusal to acknowledge - basically - that racism exists in US society. It was unbelievable.

The whole debate (which I think was on freedom of speech, or the freedom "to offend" - hence why Stephen Fry shared a platform with Peterson) was thrown off, because Peterson would not acknowledge structural inequality - and the whole thing turned into trying to convince Peterson that POC are, in general, disadvantaged.

I think it does all boil down to Peterson being part of a "I worked hard to get where I am today" Conservative meritocracy type thing - and he is genuinely offended at the thought that he may be at all privileged by being a white western man.

Yes, I agree with that. I think its also a mindset I'm familiar with among a certain section of patriotic conservatives who hold very strongly to the virtuous nature of the 'Western civilisation' of which they are a part, and seem to see all critique as a black and white choice between the oppressive regime of a dictator or the shining beacon of western democracy. There's no hint of nuance in the worldview at all.

I've seen those debates where Peterson just cannot even slightly engage with the idea of someone being structurally oppressed and it really does undercut all the cleverness. He comes across as very stupid in those moments.

It's pretty clear that many of you ladies haven't actually seen a Peterson video from your comments; rather, you've seen a video someone else has created of a Peterson video, without any context, designed to confirm your bias.

Likewise, if you're quoting hitpieces such as the NYT article, then you haven't actually read/watched anything from Peterson. Even the NYT had previously used the words "enforced monogamy", which is simply the cultural idea by which men and women partner. Ask yourselves why the author so willingly mis-led everyone.

If you believe the mainstream media especially if you're quoting the usual nonsense from the Guardian then you've been mis-led. Go read Melanie Phillips' (big fan) book on the Guardian, in which she shows the lies put forth by their "journalists".

Even if Peterson is anti feminism (I am, too), why is that a bad thing? Feminism is merely an ideology -- and third-wave, intersectional feminism long ago stopped being about "equality". If modern day feminism were truly about "equality", then we'd see a push for women to be given the same sentences as men for the same crimes.

And I'd see a push for rubbish women taking my bins every week. Oddly, this isn't happening. Can a feminist please explain this to me? It's almost as though women don't want to do all the tough jobs in society. I suppose the mythical patriarchy is to blame somehow.

There are plenty of women who are anti feminists, such as Karen Straughan and Sydney Watson (again, big fan). Being anti feminism does not mean one is anti women.

I've listened/read feminist theory and watched/read plenty on feminism, and I suggest all feminists watch/read other women explain why they're against feminism.

(Where was feminism during/after what happened in Telford and Rotherham over a 10-year period? Crickets, ladies, crickets. When it mattered most, feminism was nowhere to be seen in the UK.)

. Peterson's "interview" by Cathy Newman. A must see. . Another interview, this time by Helen Lewis.

I suggest actually watching some of Peterson's work. There are plenty of women (search YouTube) who enjoy his videos, too.

Peterson isn't right wing; he identifies as a classical British liberal. I'm happy to explain Peterson's views if anyone actually wants to know what he says. As I wrote, don't believe the media. But do ask yourselves why the media are mis-represeting his views.

Happy New Year.

Three thread topics guaranteed to flush out the anti-feminists: Porn, prostitution and Jordan blinking Peterson. Can be relied on like death and taxes.

And kudos to 53rdway for calling this forward "people need to watch 16 hours more YouTube videos to truly understand his genius"

You're on a Feminism Chat board, NoThanksFeminism Of course we care if he's anti-feminist!

Incidentally, I don't know why Tess's post was deleted, but I just want to make clear that I didn't report her. I can't remember anything in her post that breached guidelines.

Oh, I just realised that his middle name actually does begin with B! I didn't realise that when I wrote "Jordan Blinking Peterson". I'm that smart and funny

Every time...

Oh sorry, I've just read back and I see why Tess's post was deleted.

(I must have been engaging with MRAs/TRAs on Twitter too much....I find my eyes just skim over the inevitable insults now, because so many are thrown at you when you engage. I seem to be immune to them now. Which may or may not be a good thing )

Good Lord, I've actually taken the time to watch videos of him promoted by his fans, and read articles showcasing the very best he has to offer.

If you'd read the thread, you'd see a number of us saying we agree with him on a number of issues. Your bloviating post is a patronising load of cobblers, full of the usual misunderstandings and misdirections. Yes, I know there are women who are 'anti-feminist'. Why is this ever presented as a gotcha? It's just bloody weird.

And no, feminism is not about 'equality' it's about liberation. Of women, from a system which is weighted against them largely due to the biological realities that form disadvantages in the current set up.

As to feminists being silent, do keep up. Lots of feminists have been speaking up about the oppression and abuse of women for a long time. If you haven't noticed that probably says more about you than feminists.

I’m delighted to read this thread!
I’ve found most Peterson fans are brainwashed young men but at the same time I’ve found it impossible to have any sort of decent conversation about him to my feminist friends because it’s shut down immediately.
I find a lot of what he and Shapiro have to say but I also vehemently disagree with some of it too.

Lovely to read an actual discussion on it though!

I actually quite like Shapiro. He's a very sharp and funny tweeter, and I've found some of his views interesting.

Talking about editing, I noticed when watching the two debate on YouTube with Stephen Fry, where Peterson repeatedly ignored the black man on the panel trying to point out that racism is actually a thing, that there was an edited version of the debate on YouTube. The edited version was just Peterson and Fry. For some reason, someone thought that the arguments being made against Peterson weren’t worth listening to

Three thread topics guaranteed to flush out the anti-feminists: Porn, prostitution and Jordan blinking Peterson

Peterson is btw anti-porn and I would assume also anti- prostitution. One of the reasons I find the "he's not a feminist/I'm a feminist" stance unhelpful in determining whether a person is worth listening to.