Jordan B Peterson

[CandyTiger]

I was given '12 rules for life' by the above author. At first I was insulted that the person who gave me this book, actually thought I needed a self-help book (I don't btw).

I decided to read it anyway. I am not really impressed by the so called 'intellectual' Peterson. He has a bit of a reputation for arguing with feminists.

I am very interested in what other people think of Peterson.

Thanks, in advance.

If he shakes some pride and sense into them that's not a bad thing

It is a bad thing if that pride comes from reinforcing the idea that they are better than women.

I haven’t read the whole thread just the first page. I like that he is a vocal supporter of free speech. I also like that he encourages young men to take responsibility for themselves and talks about morality, when I think there is somewhat of a cultural vacuum regarding talking about moral issues. People are very scared to clearly state guidelines. With his background in social psychology I think he backs up his advice regarding certain behaviours with evidence. This doesn’t mean I agree with everything he says but I admire his courage and willingness to talk about moral absolutes and our responsibility for ourselves and each other.

He disguises his NPD very well

He’s an entitled male who can’t see beyond his own self to consider that there might be other ways to structure / run society that are far superior to anything he or most men can come up with. He’s no friend to women unless it promotes his brand. It’s good he stands up for free speech but his free speech for women is conditional on a male dominant societal structure

It is a bad thing if that pride comes from reinforcing the idea that they are better than women.
I'm not sure he does that but you might be right. However I don't want to see depressed NEET incels wasting their lives. I'd rather he turned them into productive members of society, even if they are sexist. There's more use to a sexist electrician than a sexist basement dweller. Plus interaction with the real world always helps. The most sexist young men are those who don't have to interact with women at work or in public spaces. They can then convince themselves of any nonsense about women. He's not the only cure for young men like that, but he has been fairly successful in getting some of them out of the basements. Whereas failing to engage with them is a 100% fail overall.
I don't have to agree with him to see his worth. And I think the best way to counter his patriarchal fantasies is to provide detail on alternatives. If we don't engage with the arguments, we get dismissed. In the meantime, providing young men with some structure and ambition isn't a bad thing.

Don't forget about women and their subconscious desire for brutal domination.

It's also their fault when they are harassed in the workplace, they're hypocrites to expect anything else when they decide to wear makeup for attention.

I mean... he was the editor of fucking Breitbart. They hate him for different reasons now but he was right on the cutting edge back in the day. He's a grade A cunt

Shapiro resigned from Breitbart for reasons which were wholly honourable and in support of a female employee who also resigned.

I'm not sure he does that but you might be right

He does, unless the one video and the couple of transcribed interviews I read were coincidentally a blip.

He's not the only cure for young men like that, but he has been fairly successful in getting some of them out of the basements

I find this utterly bizarre.

Do you have any evidence at all that this demographic of men exist? These basement dwelling virgins? It seems a big assumption that all NEETs are virgins hanging round in basements. There are more female NEETs than male but sure... think of the imaginary men.

If we don't engage with the arguments, we get dismissed. In the meantime, providing young men with some structure and ambition isn't a bad thing

Shit, I didn't realise he was running education and training. I thought he was some bloke making videos on Youtube.

If we don't engage with the arguments, we get dismissed

I absolutely agree with this. I think dismissing these people as "misogynists" or "racists" just doesn't help. That said I would have thought on a feminist message board one wouldn't have to spend time deconstructing obviously sexist tropes.

Shapiro resigned from Breitbart for reasons which were wholly honourable and in support of a female employee who also resigned

Right, he's a fucking hero. I suppose the 4 years he worked there were an accident or something.

If we don't engage with the arguments, we get dismissed

I absolutely agree with this. I think dismissing these people as "misogynists" or "racists" just doesn't help

Does describing Shapiro as a "grade A cunt" help?

Shit, I didn't realise he was running education and training. I thought he was some bloke making videos on Youtube.

To be fair, he's generally talking about his 20yrs in clinical practice - where he worked with a lot of disillusioned young men. His YT videos are drawn from his work as a psychologist, and from his lectures in psychology. He's not just some guy who makes YT videos.

MargueritaPink

He is a grade A cunt. It's pathetic you keep defending him.

If you were a 18 year old boy in my kitchen I would be more willing to engage. As I am currently hanging around on a feminist message board I don't feel the need to.

Let me clarify, I care very little about Ben Shapiro. He's a cunt but largely an uninteresting one.

To be fair, he's generally talking about his 20yrs in clinical practice - where he worked with a lot of disillusioned young men. His YT videos are drawn from his work as a psychologist, and from his lectures in psychology. He's not just some guy who makes YT videos

No. We are speaking about him in the context of an internet personality. Just because at some point he may have helped a insignificantly tiny amount of men in real life means fuck all in this context.

He is just some guy who makes Youtube videos now. His website is full of video content. He wrote a listicle self help book. We are only talking about him because of those things.

He wrote a self help book (the subject of this thread) drawn from his years as a clinical psychologist - which spanned 20 years. He's also a lecturer - in clinical psychology. You may not agree with his conclusions (I don't, well not all of them) but the fact is he is fairly well qualified to write a self-help book. To call him "just a YouTuber" is v unfair.

He is a grade A cunt. It's pathetic you keep defending him

I think Shapiro has some very interesting things to say on free speech and the intolerance and tyranny of the left. There are many things I don't agree with him on.

He is articulate and will listen to views he disagrees with. He won't reduce his response to the level of calling someone he disagrees with a "grade A cunt" as if that trumps everything.

To call him "just a YouTuber" is v unfair

Yes, it is about as rational, convincing and well argued as consistently calling Ben Shapiro a "cunt" and thinking that's him sorted.

Thinking about this, I think my biggest beef with him is his complete denial of structural inequality.

He is a incredibly privileged white male, who has clearly had an excellent education and career, a good marriage, but he falls into the trap of thinking everyone can do this if they "just pull their finger out and work hard, and read books, and take responsibility". It's not always as easy as that.

Saying that, I'm a bit confused as to how the MGTOWs and Incels who hold him as their idol don't take his actual advice! I wonder how many of them have read his book, or whether they've just watched the video clips captioned "Jordan Peterson destroys feminism" - and thought Yeah! Great guy! But don't look any further than that.

The thing is Tess - he didn't just leave college and write a self-help book. He worked for decades in clinical psychology - a reasonable basis for writing a self-help book - is my point.

ToeToToe

Interesting point. Does he bemoan those video titles? I honestly don't know but I bet he doesn't.

The thing is Tess - he didn't just leave college and write a self-help book. He worked for decades in clinical psychology - a reasonable basis for writing a self-help book - is my point

And my point is- so what? I did know that before you pointed out, I just don't see how it is relevant to what this thread is about other than he should probably know better.

If the 12 rules are the best he can do after years in the field then I don't see how he can be regarded as any kind of guru or genius.

No, Miffer. I think he just gets a bit annoyed when people point out that he is a poster boy for the alt-right/Incels - I don't think he takes any responsibility for it (ha!)

I think he's v v good on

• freedom of speech, and the dangers of suppressing free speech and language.

• the dangers of extreme far right or far left politics /totalitarianism.

He's not good on feminism/structural inequality - he just doesn't get it, and nor do the privileged young men that idolise him.

I don't think he takes any responsibility for it

Not only that but he profits from it. It's part of the MO lately isn't it? Imply things rather than say them, cloak yourself in plausible deniability , wait for the other people to use the eye catching click bait talking about you "wrecking feminism", the write a self help book and profit.

ToeToToe

Indeed, but a stopped clock etc.

He is clearly an intelligent guy. The video I watched him in was a master class in straw mannery. He knew what he was doing, I don't believe "he doesn't get it".

So he's good on the things that curtail his freedom, and doesn't recognise inequality. Unless it affects him.

''Jordan B. Peterson, notoriously disgruntled with the idea of equality of outcome, demands equality of outcome.''
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