ExH and his ludicrous views

[nannytothequeen]

My kids have come from my Ex's asking me if I am a feminist. I certainly am is my reply. Apparently Their Dad has told them that a feminist is a woman who hates men and wants to rule the world and that all feminists are idiots. I am so irritated that he is foisting his ill educated views on my children. Any words of advice? Any nice succinct explanations for my children?

He sounds like an idiot. Ask your children if they think women are equal to men - can and should girls be able to do whatever boys do (and vice versa)? Because that is what a feminist is - not exactly scary (except to weak and pathetic men).

Maybe leave the last bit off.

Oh yes that film that was doing the rounds where children work together to collect balls then are rewarded differently depending on a girl or a boy. Show them this then explain that this is what feminism is against. (As a starter).

inews.co.uk/video/gender-pay-gap-children-girls-arent-worth-any-less-than-boys-video/

(And Sorry he's a dick)

A running scared dick. I have just ordered a smash the patriarchy t-shirt for the next time I drop off the kids.

Good for you OP. I have this postcard. Perhaps you could order some for the children?

How old are the kids?

I'm waiting for this bullshit from my exh.

I'd suggest explaining that sometimes people hate people who have different views, and their dad falls into that category.

Shift it to him since it really is his problem, not yours (but don't blame).

Things should be thrown, but kids pick up on that.

Since you asked for "any words of advice", I'll start here: exes should do whatever they can NOT to involve their kids in conflicts between the two parents, no matter what the age of the children. Where such conflicts already exist, parents should also try NOT to escalate/heighten those conflicts or get the kids further involved in them. Particularly at the holidays.

I've learned from first-hand experience & many years of close observation that kids of all ages usually experience criticism of one parent by the other parent as extremely painful & hard to bear. Since children are hardwired to love & identify with both parents, castigating either mum or dad tends to make them feel personally attacked - & extremely torn/conflicted.

So please don't sink down to your ex's level by telling your kids he's an idiot or poorly-educated nitwit who knows nothing, no matter how much your ex might deserve such descriptions. Vent about him & his "ill educated views" to your friends & on boards such as this. But not to your kids, especially if they are still minors.

If you're kids are still kids, you'll have plenty of time to explain feminism from your POV - which I hope you'll do in appropriate ways at junctures in the weeks, months, years ahead. But right now I'd suggest you find a way to gracefully (& with humour) segue away from the contentious issues at hand - what feminism is & whether those of us who ascribe to it are all man-hating tyrants out to rule the world - & reassure your children that you & their dad love them & both of you will always do so even though you clearly disagree with each other about a lot of other things.

I can't be more specific without knowing the ages of the children. But what's best for them should always come first in these sorts of situations, & that usually means calming troubled waters rather seizing the opportunity to prove you're right & your ex is a jerk. Showing your kids that it's possible to be good-natured, gracious, civil & even humble when castigated by others might be the best holiday gift you can give them.

Chimamanda Ngozi Adiche - We Should All Be Feminists...deals with this in the first few pages of the book. Currently 99p on Amazon for Kindle. Ex has fallen for the flaccid, age old stereotypes of what a feminist is. Watch out you'll probably get a phone call from the 1970s asking for his return

Socrates Does Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie have children? I don't think so.

I recall her book being about feminism, not about how best to explain feminism to children whose parents have broken up & have conflicting views about what feminism means. I thought OP in this instance was asking about how to deal with her ex's remarks in the best way possible for her children, not about how to most effectively convince them their father's an asshole who is ill-informed & wrong. But maybe I misread the original post.

Whatever you say, please include Socrates' use of "flaccid stereotypes".

Sorry your ex is such a dick. Been there.

Vege. You what? I have said nothing of the sort to my children. All I have said is that I am a feminist because ... and dad can believe whatever he wants. And I have no intention of showing my ex any humility. Why would I?!!

And vege - do you have an aggravating less than sharp ex who wants to paint you in a negative light? I don't think so.

OP, it's so frustrating. Parental alienation is real and it's abuse but women are expected to suck it up.

As my ten year old DS once said, "how come you never tell me stories about how bad Daddy is?" At bedtime.

He even mentioned a same sex relationship I was meant to have had with a former flatmate in the nineties. Neither XH nor DS have ever even met this person! Great use of contact there, you twat

Nanny You did ask for "any words of advice" so please don't hold it against me that I offered mine. I never said my advice was sent down from on high. I tried to be clear that my advice was based on my own experience & observation.

Clearly, I misinterpreted what you were asking for in your original post. I mistakenly thought you wanted advice about how to handle this situation of parental conflict over misogyny & politics at Christmas in a way that would be least damaging to your children, when apparently you wanted only advice on how to most convincingly defend your own position rwt to feminism to your children in light of their father's disparaging remarks.

I did not suggest that you show humility to your ex. I said "showing your kids that it's possible to be good-natured, gracious, civil & even humble when castigated by others might be the best holiday gift you can give them". By "humble" here I didn't mean meek, deferential & subservient; I meant not arrogant & not having the need to constantly try to make one's opponents appear wrong, stupid, & "ill educated", to use your phrase about your children's father. My own experience is that kids respect, really like & are willing to confide in adults whom they perceive to be open to listening to all/a variety of POVs, as opposed to adults they regard as doctrinaire, table-thumping dictators principally invested in proving that their own POV is the only correct one. Also, I believe children/YAs can benefit greatly from learning that even strongly-opinionated adults of both sexes don't always have to insist that their opinions are the only ones in the world listening to or considering.

But hey, that's just my view. Which you did ask for.

And vege - do you have an aggravating less than sharp ex who wants to paint you in a negative light? I don't think so.

Contrary to your presumptuous claim that I have no experience dealing with an "aggravating ex who wants to paint you in a negative light", I in fact do have 20+ years experience dealing with an ex (& his entire family) who have portrayed me negatively to my children, the press & the courts. The only difference is my ex is not "less than sharp" - he's a really smart fella who went to Yale, Oxford & Columbia & is from one of the most powerful families in the English-speaking world. I've studied psychology & particularly conflict in "broken" families in great depth. I know what "parental alienation" is & how harmful it is to kids - not just at the time in childhood it's happening to them, but what it does to them over the far longer term. This is what informed my response. Sorry you didn't like it, but you did ask.

The clearly-flawed advice of mine you've taken umbrage to was based on the assumption that your kids are under 20 rather than in their 20s, 30s or 40s. The fact that you've still not revealed how old they are, despite being asked outright, suggests that your principal concern all along has been how to prove you're right & your ex is wrong, not how to handle the situation in a way that minimizes the negative impact on your children, whatever their ages may be.

Obviously, the fault here is entirely mine. I misread your original post. That's 100% on me. Sorry! Over and out.

FFS vegi your pompous twaddle is unreadable.

OP I’m sorry your ex is like this. I think the chimamanda ngozie adichie book will be great for when you eventually want a more in-depth conversation with your kids about feminism.

Vege- forgive me. I didn't realise I was supposed to tell you how old my kids are!! They are 13 for the record. And my second post was simply parroting the words you used to another poster. My family is not broken, thanks. It just doesn't involve an adult man. I don't alienate my ex. But that doesn't mean I am willing to accept his shit. He gets a great deal of latitude given that he doesn't pay a penny and puts his girlfriend first every time. I give him this latitude for the sake of the kids but I am not willing to say to my kids that "mum and dad both love you very much" because I don't know if that's true.

Vegilante
How patronising of you

The age of your children is relevant if you wanted a more tailored response.

Vegilante made some good points. You seem more interested in trumpeting about being a feminist. It's a pity being a feminist apparently failed you miserably when selecting a partner if you didn't spot he was so "ill educated", to use your phrase about women's rights and status. I don't claim to be a feminist but I would have never got involved in the first place with a man who held the views.

That's nice MargueritaPink.

Op 13 is a good age to start to talk about these things.

If they're asking what a feminist is, films like the one I linked will help to point out that women and girls are often treated unfairly by society. I'd so of say "ok so you were wondering what a feminist is - watch this: .... what is the film about?" And so on, just letting them understand inequality themselves and just calmly talking about how in the past women couldn't vote etc. They don't need it all at once, just a good little opener or two.

Don't comment on his opinions but I'd mildly point out that everyone has different opinions on all sorts of things. Eg which football team is the best, if Nando's is any good etc. That's his opinion. Your opinion is that feminism has done a lot in the world to make things more equal but still has more to do, especially in many parts of the world where women are still given fewer rights than men. And also that there are men and women working to do this together.

I'd probably also try to squeeze in other political things eg racism and key historical moments there as a way to paint a picture of how there are different movements that evolved to tackle inequality in different areas of society.

A quick google indicated quite a few films that's are supposed to be 'feminist' so I guess watching those together (not overtly, just by the by and then chat about key themes afterwards)

I'd do little things like this gradually and innocuously. It's just occurred to me that feminism isn't an area outrightly discussed in the curriculum as far as I know. Perhaps it should be.

I've drummed feminism into my daughters so hard they question whether men are 'allowed' to do things if they haven't seen one in that role already. I think doctor was the first one questioned! They are 6 and 9.

We also favour bechdel passing films and others where the heroine doesn't require help from a man or a romance. Disney brave is a great example.

I would be failing my daughters if I didn't do this. They still have to survive in a patriarchy.

My exh has already started on his thick view of the world. Apparently I shouldn't be parking on double yellows because I am a feminist. But we are ready for his flaccid view

Op 13 is a good age to start to talk about these things

Getting that information had to be dragged out of the OP via her rude reply to Vegilante . It was clearly pertinent to the scenario. The response to a 3 year old or a 10 year old will be different to a 13 year old.

A 13 year old may well wonder why her mother chose such an "ill- educated" partner.