ExH and his ludicrous views

[nannytothequeen]

My kids have come from my Ex's asking me if I am a feminist. I certainly am is my reply. Apparently Their Dad has told them that a feminist is a woman who hates men and wants to rule the world and that all feminists are idiots. I am so irritated that he is foisting his ill educated views on my children. Any words of advice? Any nice succinct explanations for my children?

Ahem. Did I mean to be so rude? Well, yes. I am failing to see what my ex has to do with this apart from my trying to deal with a direct question from the kids as a result of his views. But if you must know his views seem to have become more deconstructed since we split up. And he is ill educated in the sense that he is not interested in educating himself as life and times move on. I 'chose' him many many years ago. We were little more than teenagers when we met and were together for 25 years. People change. As for trumpeting feminism, you couldn't be more wrong. I am interested in making sure that my children are well rounded and intellectually well equipped. It seems to me that my response to Vege pretty restrained given the extent to which i felt I was being patronized. Anyway some good ideas for discussion. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

You were extremely rude to Vegilante. The point about the children's ages was valid and your ungracious response was unwarranted.

I'm puzzled by your failure to see what your ex has to do with this given your post is all about your ex. His views by the way are unreconstructed not deconstructed.

Christ. I'm certainly not going to take 'castigation' and be humble about it when some-one's flat out wrong!

It does the children no favors to be taught incorrect information.

Op, just gently step up the conversations about feminism, fairness, etc. just like I did when my younger children came home with the whole pink is for girls, blue is for boys nonsense

This book by Jacky Fleming might give you some ways of introducing feminism to your DCs:
www.amazon.co.uk/Trouble-Women-Jacky-Fleming/dp/1910931098/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?keywords=feminism+cartoons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1545903080&sr=1-12

Hey folks if you could try a bit harder to derail the thread and give the op a good telling off it might even stop the children learning about the ignorance of men

Argh, what fun for you.

For what it's worth I'd start by laughing it off in an 'oh isn't dad funny' kind of way which switches it from something significant that has to be refuted to something a bit daft.

Then I'd pull out a few things that women have achieved like the vote, and maternity leave and ask the kids if those things are 'man hating' or if they fixed something that was unfair? Talk about the root of the word oppression and what it means, such as labour being provided by a subservient, controlled group to a more powerful one - is that right? How do the powerful group feel when their control and superior status is challenged or removed? How is that anger expressed?

And then I'd quietly do some practice around critical thinking when we ran across advertising in shops or on tv, watching films together, picking up on points of view in the papers - hmm, is that true? Why might someone want you to think that is true? What's the gain there for them? How does it help that person's agenda to sow seeds of doubt against the other person? You might want to read through some Lundy Bancroft and the Toxic Parent books for the key insights to help the kids get objectively - not talking about their dad obviously. If you have to grow up with a toxic parent you need the insight into the behaviour to know what they're doing and when they're doing it, and to have strong boundaries.

I think id be like "wow, so your dad doesnt think that women deserve equal rights to women? How strange and what a shame"

Excellent advice in the Last two posts esp Lundy.

Hi Op, please ignore the people ticking you off like a small child, and in doing so attempting to derail the thread.

I think I would probably ask them what they think of feminism, and if they say they don't really know, then use that as an in to discuss all the great stuff Knick and Bran suggested. You could also say something light such as "well, I'm a feminist and I like plenty of men " or "That seems strange, lots of very clever people are feminists . At 13 though, it's best to keep it light and casual.

OP, I grew up in a family where one parent made very unpleasant comments about the other (which your ex has done). So based on my own experience I would try to dial things down.

I would say oh honestly, dad is such a git sometimes, ie laughing it off, in an apparently affectionate way; then say that seriously feminists really don’t hate men, in fact they want men and women to be able to have more equal and open and fulfilling relationships.

Then, given their age, I would ask them if they want to find out more about feminism- maybe suggest watching a film together, having a family evening with popcorn. Or looking at a current affairs magazine together and talking about how the issues in it might look through a feminist lens.

The important point is that given their ages I would definitely ask “do you want to learn more?” as at that age it is easy to put them off. They need to choose to learn in order to have open minds.

Your ex sounds very bitter. This is sad for them and no doubt they will pick up on it and treat his opinions with a shovel of salt accordingly.

Well would they think it was fair if any money you earned was paid to their dad?

And any money they earned if say they got a paper round?

And do they think if you needed an operation you should be able to get one without their father's permission?

If they think that's OK then they are not feminists. If they have a problem with any of those things they are a feminist.

I thought Vegilante's point of view was perfectly valid and did not deserve the response it got. It is fine to disagree but with arguments, not insults.

I personally think, in the case of thirteen-year-olds, you definitely need to have a discussion about feminism with them.

Try showing some selected videos of the comedian Rachel Paris. She is on the mash report and live at the Apollo.