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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex differences in viral severity

39 replies

Bowlofbabelfish · 24/12/2018 20:24

An interesting one - apologies I think it’s probably pay walled but the gist is this. Many viruses hit women less hard than men and it may be because women can pass them down to their infants. A virus will evolve be be less severe usually if the host can pass a lot of it on.

www.newscientist.com/article/2115987-viruses-may-have-evolved-to-hit-men-hard-but-go-easy-on-women/

Two interesting quotes:

For this to be the case, though, the virus would have to be able to detect whether it’s inside a man or a woman. We don’t yet know how it would do this, but it’s not impossible, says Jansen. “There are all sorts of hormonal and other pathways that are slightly different between men and women,” he says.

The study emphasises the need to conduct clinical trials in both sexes, rather than predominantly in men as is often the case, says David Duneau, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Toulouse, France. “The parasites themselves are behaving differently in males and females, so we need to know what they do in both sexes,” he says.

Just a small reminder that Real Scientists doing Real Science are fully aware that sex and sex difference is indeed a thing ;)

And a very Merry Christmas to you all Xmas Wink

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AspieAndProud · 24/12/2018 20:41

To be honest, I’m surprised that any viruses can kill. It doesn’t seem like the optimum strategy for spreading.

Far better to be non-fatal, if annoying, like herpes.

Bowlofbabelfish · 24/12/2018 21:23

Yeah absolutely, long term. Stuff that’s really really hideous tends to be stuff that’s new, that’s just spilled over into humans.

So warts - probably had those viruses for millennia.
Ebola? Very recent zoonotic (i.e from other animals) spillover. Ditto hendra, SARS etc. A virus is at its greatest lethality when it’s new. As it spends more time in a new host some immunity develops AND there is a selection pressure to be less lethal.

So things like Ebola and HIV and SARS - if they hang around in humans for a long time they will get less lethal.

Stuff like flu has been around a while BUT it also hangs out in other animals like pigs and fowl. So you get really nasty outbreaks when a new set of surface proteins have been shuffled in from other animals.

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AspieAndProud · 24/12/2018 21:43

I read David Quammen’s Spillover earlier this year. Fascinating as well as scary. And I used to think bars were cute.

So things like Ebola and HIV and SARS - if they hang around in humans for a long time they will get less lethal.

HIV takes a long time to kill its host. It’s not as easy to catch as many other viruses either. But so long as R0 > 1 any disease will persist in a population.

AspieAndProud · 24/12/2018 21:44

Bats, not bars. I still think bars are cute.

nauticant · 24/12/2018 23:21

It turns out that distinguishing between the sexes is a common ability whether it's adult humans, infant humans, dogs, cats, whatever, and all the way down to viruses.

But still beyond the woke and many blokes with beards. What would Charles Darwin have made of it all?

WrathofRancidKlopp · 24/12/2018 23:34

Interesting stuff Bowl.

It appears the virus may have the ability to know it is in a female body, thereby allowing the female human host to reproduce successfully.
It might even alter the behaviour of its host via neural pathways.

No signalling in the male body would allow the virus to replicate there and cause illness to its male human host.

Whilst the virus knows human females are still reproducing.

Clever

IrenetheQuaint · 24/12/2018 23:35

Hang on - are we saying that manflu is real??

ChristmassyContessaConSparkles · 24/12/2018 23:39

That was my first thought too Irene!

I'm torn between never telling them and shouting from the rooftops that sex difference is real Grin

TheMatriarch · 24/12/2018 23:41

I'd happily let manflu go if they'll just give up on the sex is a spectrum/gender is science bollocks.

WrathofRancidKlopp · 24/12/2018 23:45

Correction

No signalling in the male body-
This would allow the virus to replicate there and cause illness to its male human host.

WrathofRancidKlopp · 24/12/2018 23:51

Matriarch, irene and Contessa
Yes
Man flu must be a thing.

I'm fine with that, if science backs it up.

Unlike the other shit.

Igneococcus · 25/12/2018 07:46

It feels like the wrong way round to me.There just isn't enough genetic information for viruses to make that distinction, other pathogens maybe but not viruses.
Humans having evolved to respond differently to viruses, that I could get on board with more easily.

Yeahnahyeah · 25/12/2018 08:01

Interesting
Thank you

Mummymumm · 25/12/2018 08:17

Just sounds like male scientists are making shit up to get away with being idiots when they're ill. I read an article that said giving blow jobs help ease morning sickness. 🙄

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 25/12/2018 08:29

Thanks, Bowl. Food for thought, indeed.

WrathofRancidKlopp · 25/12/2018 09:22

Igneo
Agreed viruses might be lacking genetic material.
I was thinking of toxoplasma gondhii, a parasite that causes toxoplasmosis which does alter behaviour in the host in a very specific way.

I'll try to find a link, but not today Xmas Smile

userschmoozer · 25/12/2018 11:02

Toxoplasmosis is fascinating. The effects are potentially so severe there's a good case for insisting all cats and dogs are treated, and owners provide a litter tray and clean up after their pets.

''Consistent and significant differences in Cattell's personality factors were found between Toxoplasma-infected and -uninfected subjects in 9 of 11 studies, and these differences were not the same for men and women.
...the men were more likely to disregard rules and were more expedient, suspicious, jealous, and dogmatic. The personality of infected women, by contrast, showed higher warmth and higher superego strength... suggesting that they were more warm hearted, outgoing, conscientious, persistent, and moralistic.''

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2526142/

Also;
''In humans, acute infection with T. gondii can produce psychotic symptoms similar to those displayed by persons with schizophrenia.''

''Toxoplasma is an important cause of abortions and stillbirths after primary infection in pregnant women.''

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3035534/

WrathofRancidKlopp · 26/12/2018 01:30

Link
www.newscientist.com/article/2082105-explosive-road-rage-like-anger-linked-to-parasite-spread-by-cats

The Toxoplasma Gondhii parasite wants to replicate in the cats digestive system, it does this by getting inside a mouse.
The mouse becomes reckless and more daring, therefore more likely to be eaten by a cat.
Dopamine is a powerful motivator for brash and bold behaviour.

The parasite contains genes to recognise mouse brain dopamine receptors and human brain dopamine receptors. This helps to explain the same reckless behaviour in infected humans.

Basically TG 'knows' where to go in order to survive.

I would imagine many bacteria, viruses and suchlike would have evolved similar signalling mechanisms to distinguish the two sexes.

AspieAndProud · 26/12/2018 05:02

IIRC, toxoplasma gondhii is found in the brains of a large percentage of those killed in road accidents.

AspieAndProud · 26/12/2018 05:04

Here’s a study on it:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC117239/

I read about it in a fascinating book called This is Your Brain on Parasites

AspieAndProud · 26/12/2018 05:11

Another sex difference associated with toxoplasma gondii:

Thirty-four Toxoplasma-infected and 134 noninfected students rated the odour of urine samples from cat, horse, tiger, brown hyena and dog for intensity and pleasantness. The raters were blind to their infection status and identity of the samples. No signs of changed sensitivity of olfaction were observed. However, we found a strong, gender dependent effect of toxoplasmosis on the pleasantness attributed to cat urine odour (p = 0.0025). Infected men rated this odour as more pleasant than did the noninfected men, while infected women rated the same odour as less pleasant than did noninfected women. Toxoplasmosis did not affect how subjects rated the pleasantness of any other animal species' urine odour; however, a non-significant trend in the same directions was observed for hyena urine.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3210761/

AspieAndProud · 26/12/2018 05:13

‘Have a good day at the lab, dear?’

‘Yes, I got my students to sniff piss.’

Bowlofbabelfish · 26/12/2018 06:45

aspie four million years ago when I was a PhD student I helped out a research groupnlooking for volunteers by having an electrode put in my olfactory lobe while various odours (including one in Male sweat) were wafted before me.

The things we do for science ....

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ChristmassyContessaConSparkles · 26/12/2018 08:59

This is really interesting. Are the personality differences persistent, or only during acute infection? DH and I have had cats all our lives and are trying to work out if this has changed the course of our histories Grin

WrathofRancidKlopp · 26/12/2018 09:14

Aspie
I read somewhere that motorcyclists involved in a crash were more likely to be infected, so doctors would routinely test for toxoplasmosis.