TRAs going a bit quiet(er) - surprise, do you think?

[teawamutu]

Last few days we've seen quite a bit more GC pushback, and although some people (Robert Webb especially) have endured a total pile on, in some cases there's been v little.

I saw two TRAs assuring each other this morning that we're just a few very vocal shitty people, probably bots, and the vast majority of people agree with them.

Obvs there's a problem with figuring out what the silent majority think (although I reckon we've got a better chance of being right) but if they've been confusing people not liking to speak up for fear of being labeled transphobic, attacked etc, with agreement, this must be something of a shock...

Using terfblockers and dismissing any criticism as 'transphobia' are schoolboy errors. You really need to be as fully informed about any opposition as possible. Their mistake.

Yes - I wonder how long it's going to take some people on Twitter to realise that their Twitter bubble map is not the territory.

Agree. This reply to Peter Tatchell's thread yesterday made me laugh. It makes me think they really don't have any idea what the majority of people rhink.

They've certainly been quiet on Mumsnet.

The whole trying to silence and shame Mumsnet thing over the last year has backfired and there are more gender critical people on here than ever. They will keep trying of course.

I really hope they keep up the "no debate or you are killing children" thing that is playing out on Twitter.

It is interesting to see a lot of moderate, ordinary people climb aboard the Peak Trans Express. Because that was a lot of us about two years ago.

It's good but I'm seeing a depressing viewpoint from ordinary straight men (admittedly on football forums) that this is somehow the fault of feminism.

It's the old, "you wanted equality ladies, and now you've got it"

depressing viewpoint from ordinary straight men (admittedly on football forums) that this is somehow the fault of feminism.

It's easier to blame feminism than accept it's toxic masculinity and therefore something that it's the responsibility of men to address.

However, even from that deluded perspective, are these men seriously considering that it's worth finding ourselves in a totalitarian, dystopian future in order to spare themselves the responsibility of looking at where we're heading if we don't all pull together?

Yes, I saw a tweet yesterday from a Woke Girl who proudly proclaimed that "most women support trans rights" in response to the Robert Webb stuff.

I can't imagine where she got that idea- it makes me think that individuals like that don't engage at all with average people outside of their woke bubble. Like they can't possibly have had an open and informed conversation with a female beautician, carer, nurse, DV survivor etc who are gladly accepting of the ramifications that the GRA will have on their lives.

Hang on. I support trans rights too.

I just don't think they should have priority over women's rights and I don't think humans can change sex.

I keep asking various people on twitter who bang on about "trans rights" what rights exactly they don't already have bearing in mind that even without the GRA gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the EA. Nobody's answered yet.

That explanation makes sense, thank you. And it's not so much stupidity but glee, that all these evil feminists are actually hurting women and lesbians more than most. Because gay women, real not porn ones, are what undermines their entire belief system more than any other group.

Hang on. I support trans rights too.

Of course you do, because you're probably a normal, tolerant person like most of the people who have waded in

What I should have put was "Trans rights to have more rights", as that is more accurate

It is interesting to see a lot of moderate, ordinary people climb aboard the Peak Trans Express. Because that was a lot of us about two years ago.

Yep, it's 2 years since my indifference turned to curiosity and then to horror.

About the same timescale for me.

As a middle aged PTA mum I do secretly quite like being able to call myself 'radical' anything

And of course I also support trans rights as I do any human rights. As one MNer so eloquently put it; l absolutely believe trans people should have a seat at the table, but their OWN seat, not taking the ones women fought for over so many years.

I can't help wondering if a few previously vocal trans activists have actually been peak transed themselves.

It's the old, "you wanted equality ladies, and now you've got it"

Yes. Look them straight in the eye and inquire 'do you mean that women deserve it for not staying in their place, lesser than men?'

Because few men are willing to admit being that much of a twat. However that is exactly what they mean.

Next wave feminism; get the surf boards ready. It's gonna be big.

It's being touted as trans rights to cover up that it's actually trans demands - that's why the question "what rights don't you have" is never answered.

No one wants to be seen to be denying people their rights, especially all those who identify as woke/who want to be nice/who regard themselves as doing rightthink and they will shut up when it's couched in those terms.

Demands on the other hand are not all reasonable or legitimate and people are much more likely to have no qualms about saying so.

It makes me think they really don't have any idea what the majority of people rhink.

What they don’t appreciate is that Mumsnet is actually a great deal more sympathetic on the subject than the rest of the population because we have discussed the issues in depth and are aware that there is a small minority who suffer genuine dysphoria. As far as most people are concerned, transwomen are just perverts. We aren’t the opposite pole, we are the middle ground. When the TRAs lose the unconditional backing of the institutions it’s not us that will be leading the backlash.

Transwomen offer men something real - the chance to break free of their prison of masculinity. They are or should be the vanguard of a feminist revolution that truly liberates men, thus releasing women from being the punching bag for male frustration and rage.

Where the fuck did it all go so wrong? Transwomen! Reclaim the men's toilets in groups - hands around the toilets the way women used to in Greenham. Offer therapy to the idiots who think make-up or non-PIV sex corrodes their male essence. Chortle at the exactly opposite opinions about the gender-appropriateness of soccer in the US versus the UK. Run, cycle and swim in the men's events til your hearts burst.

Women will be with you.

I think their mums/dads/siblings etc have corralled them for Christmas so they’re busy with complex family dynamics

It's the old, "you wanted equality ladies, and now you've got it"

My response to that is always: you must really hate your mothers, wives, sisters and daughters if you think that; because it's not just the 'feminists' who will suffer as a result of this nonsense, it's all women and girls.

I have no respect at all for the stupid men who say that. They couldn't make it any clearer that they think women have no right to want equality....it's not like we are human, right? Imagine the arrogance of men who dare to laugh and mock women for actually wanting to be treated as the human beings we are? Gah these men are thick. Or evil. Or both.

Whaaa?
As far as most people are concerned, transwomen are just perverts
Not Corbyn
Not at the Guardian
Not at The BBC
Not Maria Miller or the rest of all politicians...
Transwomen are women.
Transwomen are stunning and brave women.

Those are the people who thought Remain was a given so didn’t even have to campaign properly. They don’t have a clue what’s going on in the rest of the country.

The comments on the Daily Mail article about the Navratilova-McKinnon spat show what the "average man on the street" really thinks. Most people are oblivious to the details of the ongoing debate. As soon as they hear about trans women in sports or that their young daughter could be exposed to a lady penis at the swimming pool or their teenage son has to get changed at school with a trans boy... suddenly TWAW seems a lot more unpalatable.

The ‘hur-hur, you wanted equality!’ stops when their 14 year old daughter comes back pregnant from the Girl Guides.