Gender conversion therapy

[smegandhead]

Am seeing a lot of posts surrounding Mermaids and the national lottery funding.

I cannot believe that mums would be so hostile to an organisation that helps children.

I wish in my day Mermaids existed as they could have helped me from the conversion therapy I endured

Message edited by MNHQ to remove link that broke our talk guidelines

I’m calling bullshit on this exorcism.

Whatever people think of the Seventies, it wasn't the fucking dark ages.

And for someone on That side of the fence to get a twitter ban it must be bad!

This is the difference between lying and bullshit. Liars want to persuade you. They know there’s a difference between lies and truth and they want you to believe that what they say is true because they know truth matters. Bullshitters just don’t care. They’ll say anything. They don’t want to persuade you because truth just doesn’t matter to them.

It’s a game for some people. If of wanstrhi issue it would be some other flat earth issue

No I never said anything about exorcism, I merely said what the nurse said to me. Try to read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote

Are you really FM stomp from twitter?

Don't know who you mean, I went and had a look on Twitter but there is no account by that name

Well, your link has been removed for breaking talk guidelines so no one can read it.

Why don't you have a read about the issues people have with Mermaids rather than just berate people for disagreeing with you?

I've had 'conversion therapy', and part of it did actually involve casting out the demon of homosexuality.

I've got very little time for parents with GNC kids telling them they can express themselves however they want to, but they won't be able to change sex, being compared to the oppressive shite I went through.

Don't know who you mean, I went and had a look on Twitter but there is no account by that name

Chinny reckon

I’m pleased to see MN removed the link for breaking guidelines. I had hoped they’d remove the entire thread

Smegandhead is more than likely FMStomp, CupidStunt, MissGripper, etc, etc, etc on Twitter and elsewhere. Suspended for some really vile tweets, general bllsht and whose route through transition varies according to how much "brave and stunning" validation they wish to drum-up.

A sadly long-deceased relative of mine had ECT and a long-term stay in an "asylum" after her husband left her in a very brutal manner as she battled PND. It was grim. She had very little memory of the procedure. It (and worse) has happended to thousands of women.

I cannot tell whether Mermaids helps transgender children to cope mentally. I can see, however, that they are advocating physically harmful practices that can only be justified if the mental trauma would otherwise be huge.

You say it would have been right for you. Maybe it would. That doesn't make it justifiable for other children. We need caution, research and very careful decision making here.

Missgripper was the one who posted lots of porn and fetish stuff on twitter right? And harassed women's accounts?

I imagine we’re going to see a lot of accusations of transphobia over the next few hours, as those in support of Mermaid start to panic anyway this review might uncover.

makes mountain of sandwiches 🥪 coffee/tea ☕️ gin and wine to pass around fellow sensible GC females Bring it on!!

What Mermaids is doing is a form of Gay Conversion Therapy, as is obvious to anyone with eyes, so "I was subjected to conversion therapy, therefore Mermaids is great" makes no sense whatsoever.

If confronted with a boy who wears dresses and plays with dolls, people react as follows:

Homophobic conservatives: "Oh no! We need to teach this boy to behave differently!"

Homophobic pseudoprogressives: "Oh no! We need to do dangerous surgery on this transgirl! She's clearly in the wrong body."

Feminists: Oh nice, a happy child. Why should we be doing anything about him?

This is the difference between lying and bullshit. Liars want to persuade you. They know there’s a difference between lies and truth and they want you to believe that what they say is true because they know truth matters. Bullshitters just don’t care. They’ll say anything. They don’t want to persuade you because truth just doesn’t matter to them.

Interesting way of looking at things, I never considered this before.

I feel that genderists all belong in the bullshitters category. That's probably not the case, but some things are just so absolutely impossible that one can't make up a plausible lie about them.

The only reason I know they must be liars is because others believe them.

I saw doctors and attended clinics in the 60s and early 70s as a child and teenager. I was looking for help because I knew something was wrong from an early age. Believing your body is one thing and your mind another is clearly not as it should be and I wanted to see as many doctors and try as many 'conversion therapies' (though not called that way then - they were attempted cures - which I was looking for). Who would not be? I wanted to be helped.

None of them worked, and I seem to have actually been transsexual, whatever that is and however it comes about. In the end, after therapy and multiple assessments by psychologists and psychiatrists, we all decided on the 'nuclear' option - which is what medical transition was thought to be (rightly).

I was lucky as it worked. But I was old enough then to be sure I was doing the right thing. And I benefitted hugely from those years as a child working this through and having to be dragged kicking and screaming into that last step.

It should never be the first choice or contemplated with children being medicated. There is too much margin for error and changing the mind, not the body, should be the first thing always attempted.

Being transsexual is not a game, nor a lifestyle choice. Drastic action should only happen if all factors align after extensive discussion when old enough to do that.

Moreover, going through this process brings rational thinking and understanding of what is and is not possible. As a child you do think God or fairies or magic or doctors can change your sex. You need to be an adult to know none of them can do to make a properly informed decision to take your body as far as it can in that direction.

Medicalising children is dangerous. And I suspect adults who wish it could have been possible for them are now selfishly transferring their regret onto children out there for whom this might well be an entirely different situation and the wrong thing to do - as it most often is imo.

Is it not a disconnect between adults wanting NOT to change their bodies in any way or ever see doctors and yet the law should alter to let them legally become women? Whereas the same people are arguing that children in vulnerable situations and too young to really know how their self will develop should receive life altering medical treatment.

How come it is one rule for adults and another for children?

Thank you lass.

I suppose you went through the process but know - kids today are being fast tracked and will have a life (not or roses) but of wondering ‘what if they were wrong?’

I worry about the motives of parents desperate to have their ‘special’ child. It’s the ADHD of the decade.

Medicalising children is dangerous. And I suspect adults who wish it could have been possible for them are now selfishly transferring their regret onto children out there for whom this might well be an entirely different situation and the wrong thing to do - as it most often is imo.

That's the most harmless explanation one can find - but I suspect much worse motives, what with the adult men who don't seem to think it necessary to alter their body at all before they identify as women making up a large percentage of the movement that preaches hormones and surgery for children.

As someone wrote on an other thread, you have sexually functional adult males on one side, and sterilized children who can't even feel sexual desire on the other.
It is very creepy.

Mermaids is not an acceptable middle ground. We have gone from one extreme to another.

I too share the experiences starting early 80's and no question it was dangerous and damaging and I still carry the trauma to this day about how I was made to feel.

But to swing the other way is not the answer. Children are being taught that gender is a free choice for them to make; we are demedicalising transsexualism and turning it too a simple lifestyle choice.

If money is to be spent on supporting children (as it should) then lets give the money to CAMHS where children are able to be assessed without agenda and preconceptions.

I agree, like Stonewall, who are gaining too much influence over thinking, and defining anyone as trans, Mermaids are seen as the go to source for all wisdom on child transition.

That should never be the role of one clearly polarised opinion setter. There has to be a wider range of thinking given equal consideration on a subject as important as the lives of children.

We seem to live in an age where feelings matter more than logic or science. And government who should lead and make informed and balanced decisions are instead being led by niche organisations that direct thinking in specific ways.

You cannot play games - be they political or ideological - with the future of our children. It is time to have a serious inquiry into what is going on.

Like why children wanting to transition has reached epidemic proportions and is outstripping the adult levels that have been stable for decades? Or why more girls are identifying as boys than the other way around - something that has entirely reversed over 3 or 4 years.

These clearly suggest things are happening that relate to social factors. You should not be medicalising children on the back of something that might be a socially created short term event. Not when the consequences for those children are lifelong.

The biggest thing we can start to do in schools right now is start working on gender stereotypes.

We still tell girls that "girls dont play football" and "boys dont do netball" and "girls do home economics" and "boys do woodwork". Rules on hair, makeup and jewellery are all sex specific in schools.

You cant be transgender because you dont confirm to a gender stereotype if we can start to get rid of gender stereotypes.

Or why more girls are identifying as boys than the other way around - something that has entirely reversed over 3 or 4 years.

Is it as simple as the fact that girls see the male dominated society we are in and feel that they need to be male to get ahead ?