Are women hated because we are weak?

[CrazyToast]

I'm sure there's been a thread about this before but I am wondering again- why do we hate women?

Straight men hate women.
Women often seem to hate women.
Transwomen often seem to hate women.
Gay men often often seem to hate women.

Why? What is it about us which is so detestable?

Is it because we are seen as weak due to femininity? Our reliance on men? That we have not contributed as much to society as men allegedly?

Is because women can have children and men can't?

Is it because straight men want sex with us so much and we control that?

My theory is that hunter-gatherer societies were fairly egalitarian. Gathering supplies the vast majority of reliable calories and, although people like meat, it's not reliable nor is it sustainable. So women had a fair amount of power. Hunters had to be bigger and stronger (evolution made men big). Good hunters tended to get laid a fair amount so it all worked out. Women chose to shag who they wanted in the main but hard work and being a decent sort was how you got laid.

Then came fixed agriculture. Suddenly food could be guarded, stored, and access to it could be restricted. Those big, strong men could suddenly control the food in a way they couldn't before. This gave them massive power over anyone weaker. And now the most restrictive arsehole got the sex. Violence and control could get you a woman forced to be at home while you got to shag around. Awesome.

Now we have a world in the West at least where physical size and strength isn't very important. But that's an issue for men who want to keep the privilege they built up. They don't want to go back to the days when Donald Trump wouldn't have got anywhere near any women, never mind several attractive, younger ones. So we have the patriarchy, sustaining the privilege built up now the reason has gone. Feminism is the only fly in the ointment. If we realised that the only advantage men have, their physical size, is outdated and that women should be able to choose who to shag based on preference, the powerful men would be screwed (well actually not screwed).

Hence the hatred. We are trying to restrict access to sex. The best example of this is the incels.

Have I just read what I think I’ve read? The self pitying, I’m a victim, all men (50% of the world’s population ie a good few billion people) are all bad.. hilarious absolutely hilarious

No unbias you haven't. Read again and try harder

They don't want to go back to the days when Donald Trump wouldn't have got anywhere near any women, never mind several attractive, younger ones

I wouldn't mind going back to those days. I those days, he would probably not even have been born. (That kind of idiocy doesn't accidentally happen in only one generation, surely? I read somewhere his grandfather got rich with brothels ...)

@unbias123 If you mean this post and the comments then no, that isnt what you have just read. It may be what you want to have seen in order to make an arsy comment though.

Politically, women are hated because power is a helluva drug, hating women is politically expedient, and it all starts at home (mommy issues):

From The New Authoritarians Are Waging War on Women

*

"To understand global Trumpism, argues Valerie M. Hudson, a political scientist at Texas A&M, it’s vital to remember that for most of human history, leaders and their male subjects forged a social contract: “Men agreed to be ruled by other men in return for all men ruling over women.” This political hierarchy appeared natural—as natural as adults ruling children—because it mirrored the hierarchy of the home. Thus, for millennia, men, and many women, have associated male dominance with political legitimacy. Women’s empowerment ruptures this order. “Youths oppress My people, and women rule over them,” laments Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible. “My people, your leaders mislead you.”

"Because male dominance is deeply linked to political legitimacy, many revolutionaries and counterrevolutionaries have used the specter of women’s power to discredit the regime they sought to overthrow. Then, once in power themselves, they have validated their authority by reducing women’s rights. In a 1995 paper, Arthur Gilbert and James Cole of the University of Denver observed that French revolutionaries made Marie Antoinette a symbol of the immorality of the ancien régime and that Iranian revolutionaries did the same to Princess Ashraf, the “unveiled and powerful” sister of the shah. After toppling the monarchy, the French revolutionaries banned women from holding senior teaching positions and inheriting property. Ayatollah Khamenei made it a crime for women to speak on the radio or appear unveiled in public."

*

"There is a striking correlation between countries where women and men behave more equally in the home and countries where women are more equally represented in government. Take Sweden, 44 percent of whose parliamentarians are women. There, the gap between the amount of housework done by men and that done by women is less than an hour a day. In the U.S., where women will soon make up roughly 23 percent of Congress, the housework gender gap is an hour and a half. In Hungary, where women account for 10 percent of parliament, it is well over two hours.

"Women looking to unseat Trump or Bolsonaro in the next election may find little comfort in the Nordic example. Family dynamics change not year by year, but generation by generation. Nonetheless, the new authoritarianism underscores the importance of an old feminist mantra: The personal is political. Foster women’s equality in the home, and you may save democracy itself."

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/authoritarian-sexism-trump-duterte/576382/

This is nonsense..

Imelda Marcus had a shoe collection that was apparently to blame for Ferdinand Marcus running the Phillipines as a corrupt dictatorship for decades.

Madame Mao went to prison because she somehow convinced her revered husband, Chairman Mao, to kill millions in a failed attempt to restructure society known as the Cultural Revolution.

There are many many examples of "this nonsense"

Hmmm, you mean, theoretically, by making their husbands do more housework, women could get rid of Trump?

I know it probably doesn't work like that, but hey, it's worth a try, isn't it?

We could try and win men for that approach.

#HouseworkAgainstTrump ... or something?

I'm making the case that a lot of the anti women crap I see could be explained as narcissistic rage against mommy.

It's not as far out there as it seems. The family unit is the base of society. In the family unit, if, for example, mommy goes to work comes home and gets cranky because she has another 8 hours of work to do, but daddy is nice and lets me drink from his beer while he's watching the game, what kind of society does that prepare you for?

It's not the sole cause or work to be done, but there is a case for more equality at home leads to more equality at large.

Politically though, woman hate as a political tool is extremely well documented.

Most of the threads are from bitter angry women who ubiquitously hate men. There are always those who will blame entire groups for their issues. IMO those haters who are just pathetic.

Laughable. Rubbish

You are actually serious?

Hilarious. Omg the self pity

There's an interesting thread on the go at the moment which explains why the theory about men being superfluous and the fear this inspires being the root of female oppression is false. If men were not needed then biology would simply not have made the sex ratio 50/50.

Beside imagine if there were only 20% men what kind of an ego they would have :)

I disagree it's all about security of reproduction. Old women are the most despised in society, yet are long past reproduction. Mothers are despised the next because they do the domestic work - they are trapped by their biology (childcare, child bearing and so on). Men are the 'breadwinners', 'bringing home the bacon' - things society values and vaunts. Pregnant women are 'breeding like rabbits'.

It's all about power. My old dog is bullied by the little new yappy puppy. Once he would have been fit enough to put an end to the annoying puppy, but now he is weaker and pretty defenceless. Same happens in schools, in the workplace. Explains why humans display cruelty to animals. Animals are extremely cruel to weaker individuals.

Women are physically weaker. That is their biology. Full stop.

I think its one result of a clash between people who think in terms of hierarchy and people who think in terms of community.

Insecure people try to make themselves look like they belong high up in their imagined hierarchy by putting other people down. Other insecure people go along with it because they feel stronger in a group.

Beside imagine if there were only 20% men what kind of an ego they would have

Perhaps they wouldn't be nearly as bad as you think they would. After all, the world wouldn't be a patriarchy in that case.

I disagree it's all about security of reproduction. Old women are the most despised in society, yet are long past reproduction.

Old women are past their reproductive age, but they still don't belong to the class of men. They have no use to men, but can't hope to join them.

I don't know how slaveowners in the American South treated elderly black slaves, but I don't think they started being nice to them just because they couldn't exploit them (any more).

That doesn't negate the fact that the motivation for racism is the wish to justify exploitation.

Once a social justification has been invented for oppression and exploitation, it has to applies to all people who belong to the oppressed group, even if you can't exploit them.
After all, the invention of a justification for your exploitation is a subconscious process.

Men genuinely believe that women are worth less. The awareness that they want to exploit women might float to the surface once in a while, but it is not at the forefront of the mind for most of the time.

But why do men believe women are worth less? That is the question. I suggest it is because women are physically inferior. (Most) men can over power (most) women.

I don't like the debate when it expands to other forms of oppression because that may or may not inform us as to why men despise women. I would say however that if black people were the more developed, had the wealth and weapons before the white west we would have seen the same oppression and racism reversed (whites would have been the enslaved).

I think some men believe women are like children. Not only physically but also mentally weaker. You see this attitude all the time by large engineering projects show it the most, e.g. stand aside dear the men are in charge now. I would hope that as more females get involved in construction etc these attitudes will change, but not sure I would want to in the vanguard!

This discussion is hilarious 😂

Because life is so much more comfortable with slaves. And if you're not officially allowed one kind of slave, you find another.
Someone you can impose different expectations upon from you. Someone you can control. Someone who does the crappy stuff you don't want to do. Without getting paid. Someone to make your life nicer. Someone with less rights.
And since we've officially outlawed legal slavery, the best way to have a class of slaves these days is to
a. Find an easily identifiable biological characteristic of an entire class to designate them clearly
b. Argue that they are biologically destined to slave-like traits, born for a life of servitude, suited to it.
c. Teach them to enjoy it; punish them for resisting it; tell them they are wrong for not feeling their natural destiny like the others. Tell them their power lies in their excellence at whichever trait you'd like to cultivate
d. Despise them. It's the best way to justify to yourself treating an entire class in a subhuman way. They must be naturally beneath you and this is the best they must expect.

Something along those lines.

I can only contribute from a straight male point of view, but I believe one factor is that we are terrified of the loss of our privilege.

And one of the scariest aspects of that is acknowledging our privilege in the first place.

I always thought of myself as absolutely not being a misogynist. And I was good enough at not discriminating against women. But I will readily confess I resented, deeply, the notion that I had an easier ride through life. I felt it devalued what I had achieved. It's taken me an ashamedly long time to accept that it is so, and realize how many fewer obstacles have littered my path through life.

But we (men) can't really see the rest of the issues surrounding misogyny while we waste our breath indignantly responding that DV affects men too, that women have affairs too, that we face challenges too. All of which are true enough and deserving their own separate discussions but simply muddle the waters when the issue being discussed is the shit that women go through.

It is much easier to ask why women are still complaining when things are "better than ever" for them. It is much easier to resent the noise created by feminism. It is much easier to wish you'd all just... stop going on about it. Much easier, than accepting the necessity of these things and accepting that if we do our bit to help the cause, it will mean that our advantages slip away.

I mean, that's one thing that occurs to me, that would be a factor even for many... normal... men. If we want to look at incel culture etc. then yes, the hatred essentially boils down to you having agency over your own bodies.

Hope my post wasn't out of place, apologies if so.

Most of the gay men I've worked with seem to hate women the most and I'd like to know why that is

I think straight men also hate women but they hide it because they want women for sex.

"Straight men hate women"