Transpeople have higher rate of dv than women

[flyingdragonzog]

Posted on another thread www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

Obviously DV is wrong and terrible whoever the victim is

But do they really? Or is this just putting facts in a way that says what the world is meant to hear currently?

If we aren't recording it as rates of DV on transmen and rates of DV on transwomen... and simply recording rates of transgender people who experience DV

I'm inclined to think if we recorded the rates we would still find out that natal men are the perpetrators of the most DV? Or does becoming a transman mean you become more prone to being violent to a partner?

You’ll search long and hard to find a mug who’ll bet against it.

Completely unrelated: I was arguing with a TW my DP knows on Facebook. They were berating me, in quite an insulty manner, for saying they are male, because in fact, I’m completely wrong, because I’m an evil bigot of course, and they could prove it. I offered up a pretty substantial bet, all my savings in fact, as a bet that if they take a DNA test they would be proved to be male. They blocked me.

Would also be interested if FfJ and any MRA organisations were surveyed, what the statistics on self reported DV committed by female partners would be, and what that DV consisted of.

It's not difficult to find allegations of financial abuse such as expecting a NRP to pay child maintenance or emotional abuse such as leaving a marriage without permission. (And yes, I have seen it worded exactly that way.)

As mentioned in the Scotland Census discussions: without the statistics its impossible to pin down, is there a real problem, what is it, what causes it and who needs what services to help with it. And it's difficult not to become increasingly cynical as the definitions of words become so very stretched and overused.

It would be interesting to see if the rate of domestic violence was correlated to the amount of males in a relationship.

We need clear data supported by the use of clear definitions and rigorous classifications to understand what is happening here.

If it is indeed the case that transwomen and transmen are suffering a higher rate of DV than women, that is outrageous (because the rate amongst women is shockingly high) and surely everyone would want to know an then be able to track the effectiveness of intervention programmes to address this issue. Which means clearly recording victims and perpetrators according to birth sex and gender presentation

https://www.scottishtrans.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/transdomesticc_abuse.pdf

I found this - a bit long to break it all down and now I notice in the link it says 2013 so maybe there are more recent ones

But physical abuse is given as quite a low figure compared to emotional abuse and transphobic abuse is the highest reported ... out of 98% respondents who said they experienced DA it was 15% I think who said they experienced physical abuse

I think it matters to women because although DV is awful whoever the victim... it may mean funding being pulled away from natal women to tackle it despite sex based statistics probably showing exactly what we already know...

And just me personally I want to know when I'm being gaslighted over risks that are faced

I couldn’t see any discussion/references to DV, in the OPs link. I didn’t bother clicking on Stonewall’s report though, as their agenda is so biased against natal women that you can safely discount the accuracy of most of what they say.

Do we have a widely accepted population % for trans people (by sex if possible?)

If so I'd be interested if somebody could extrapolate from those numbers how many trans deaths from domestic violence we would expect to see per year if their numbers are accurate. And then to scale that up to compare to women's deaths were populations to be equal.

I guess you'd have to know what % of DV statistically results in death of the victim.

I just don't know the numbers or have the mathematical confidence to do this, or else I would as I'm very interested.

Also, I would assume people with MH are more vulnerable to DV, so that would have to be corrected for. I don't know of this is possible with the data available.

It goes without saying that if the numbers truly are so high that is a major problem! However, that doesn't make it women's responsibility to tackle, I will eat my hat if it is women committing abuse.

There isn't a clear figure SuperLamb. And certainly not by sex. Or a non woolly definition of transgender so people are talking about different things.

The Gendered Intelligence submission to the Maria Miller Trans Equality Inquiry gave 1% of the population and that is the one used most by the trans lobby. So 650k is their own figure.

That's both sexes. By the definition of trans that they use (Stonewall umbrella inc cross dressing) it is logical that the majority would be male.

As far as the trans debate is concerned numbers are no more meaningful than words.

It’s always advisable to ask ‘who is saying this and why?’ when presented with statistics but my gut instinct on being presented with stats from trans advocation groups now is just to dismiss them out of hand instead of diving into a vortex of bullshit.

I think if the 2% figure was accurate there’d be, in average, around two per train carriage I take to work each day.

There’s be three or four in my street.

I’m not buying it.

A friend works in a large prison. She told me they have 5 transwomen in there at present, all sex offenders. All decided to transition after beginning their lengthy sentences.

Some people's motivations or reasons for this bear closer examination.

The last Office of National Statistics survey found that approximately 1.5% of the UK population is gay.

If 2% of the population is trans that would mean they outnumber homosexuals.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/oct/03/gay-britain-what-do-statistics-say

If 2% of the population is trans that would mean they outnumber homosexuals.

Which sounds somewhat unlikely...

If you dissolve women's rights and spaces and reduce child protection - it is a logical consequence that the population mushrooms. Jus' sayin'.

If you dissolve women's rights and spaces and reduce child protection - it is a logical consequence that the population mushrooms. Jus' sayin'.

Yup.

If 2% of the population is trans that would mean they outnumber homosexuals.

Well. They do. At least according ot the definition of trans that is applied nowadays, which includes autogynephiles and girls who hate their developing bodies.

And trans certainly outnumber lesbians at LGBT events.

However, one does wonder why most people don't question the claim that more people are "born in the wrong body" - a disorder that one would expect to be rather rare - than are homosexual.

We need clear data supported by the use of clear definitions and rigorous classifications to understand what is happening here.

If it is indeed the case that transwomen and transmen are suffering a higher rate of DV than women, that is outrageous (because the rate amongst women is shockingly high) and surely everyone would want to know an then be able to track the effectiveness of intervention programmes to address this issue. Which means clearly recording victims and perpetrators according to birth sex and gender presentation

I've had a look at the statistics that Stonewall use to support their claim

One source of evidence is statistics showing the prevalence of DV against biological women and as TWAW they assume the same rates apply

The second is self reported responses to questions asked of the whole LGBT community. This data showed that all those groups (supposedly) had a higher incidence of DV than the accepted level for the general population, which was gained via different questionnaires/methods. Stonewall's data also shows that the trans community came out as having the highest incidence when compared to the LB and G. This could well be explained by looking at Stonewalls definition of DV and the questions they asked as trans people had an additional two questions that only applied to them.

If they count "my wife, whom I married before transing, misgenders me" or "my girlfriend, with whom I was in a lesbian relationship prior to my transition is attracted to my breasts and put off by my binder" as emotional abuse, I am not surprised at all that they get higher levels of abuse for trans ...

Erish That 1% is interesting. In the US they say 2%.

IIRC the stat is based on a controlled study, I think a Dutch one, which found a prevalence of 1% of gender incongruence in the study cohort and which is extrapolated to the whole population of the UK.

That's not really scientific, I am quite sure there's a much higher percentage of transgender identified people in the UK than in the Netherlands.

Unless they let male prisoners into women's prisons in the Netherlands, that is.

I agree. Not sure which study it was off hand.