worried about partner

[Nsmum14]

My partner started watching Jordan Peterson videos around this time last year. Being an insecure man who has not really known privilege he was instantly attracted to J P and to his lectures. My partner started to say things like male privilege is a myth. He now believes it is men that are hard done by by the world generally. That women act like they're victims but it is simply an act.
A year on he's watching all these seemingly vile videos on youtube. Last night he was watching a video called How Women Destroy Nations (and why men let them). Whenever I ask why he is watching this stuff he gets angry and goes into fighty mode. We fall out enough as it is so I'm just keeping silent and hoping this phase passes.

It is upsetting to me though. I don't know why I'm posting this. He seems strengthened by what he watches, I think I just wanted to hear what some of you think of this.

I can't believe people are saying to end a relationship over watching a few videos on YouTube.

If the male partner stopped the female partner watching, for example, Posie Parker on YouTube, should he leave her too?

My husband has bought the JP book but he doesn't 'hate' women. You lot are hysterical sometimes

Thanks arranbubonicplague, this looks very interesting and like the kind of thing I need to read, I'll have a look at it.

Oh, did you read what Nsmum14 actually wrote about her partner actually expressing anti-women sentiments, and being "fighty" when challenged, and refusing to talk about it? It's not about just watching some videos.

I'm sure 'fighty' is open to interpretation. Most here have decided he's 'dangerous' etc. So knee jerk around here, no wonder we never get taken seriously

I'm a bit puzzled. Why is it your responsibility to "channel" HIS anger?!

He's making choices to watch these videos. He's making choices to repeat their concepts and language. He's adopting their ideas.

Those choices have consequences.

He may find himself losing friends, losing respect, losing you.

I don't think it's particularly extreme to suggest you reconsider staying in a relationship with a man who hates women. Who possibly believes you are foolish for disagreeing with these ideas. Who is getting more deeply involved with these ideas over time.

If my husband started doing this I would string question whether I could stay. Indeed whether it was safe for me to stay.

"Most here have decided he's 'dangerous' " nope, that's your assumption. I would take fighty to mean argumentative and verbally aggressive, unless Nsmum14 says otherwise.

I made it through about 2 seconds of JP on YouTube before I had to turn it off. But I got the jist.

I don't think people like JP radicalise men into misogonysts. I think they just validate their ideas. They have always been misogonists but listening to people like JP let's them think their opinions are right and they can therefore now voice them. An awful lot of men secretly hate women, but I think they know these opinions are socially wrong. He is just validating his own ideas by watching the videos and now thinks that he is right, whilst before maybe he knew he wasn't.

This man hates women, it's not a phase he clearly hates women and I suspect has hated them his whole life. Why would you want to stay with someone who hates you? He might like you as a single person but he hates what you are, and how could you be with someone like that.

I think some of the problem is that we've thought about this a lot, our arguments have refined and developed (I cringe at my 20 year old self, who would have breezily said that I had no problem with prostitution or surrogacy), whereas, for a lot of men, this is the first time they're hearing this stuff, and on the surface it can seem to make sense.

My DP listens to Joe Rogan, which is generally 2-3 men sitting waffling on about stuff they don't necessarily know a lot about (not always, he has experts on subjects too sometimes). More than once I've overhead what's being spoken about, and stormed into the livingroom to suggest that he stops listening to this rubbish, and told him exactly why Joe et al are talking bollocks.

We've had late night conversations on pornography, which over the course of a few weeks really made him think (reading out loud the titles of videos on the front page of a major aggregator really hit home)

I would like to think that our talks would mean that he'd see through Peterson's shallow analysis, but who knows - it doesn't directly affect him, so he wouldn't think deeply.

When it comes to your DP OP, you're going to have to decide how you want to handle it. I know that if mine wasn't willing to discuss, if he started spouting MRA shit in front of the kids, then yes, actually, I really would be looking at leaving - I'm not going to live with and support someone who thinks that way.

And yes, I do like the suggestion of swapping roles. It exposed a huge flaw in our relationship when I wanted to go back full time from freelancing, and opened the discussion on whether he would be doing drop offs or pickups to enable me to work (he had flexitime, this was completely within his ability to commit to), and he flat out refused to take any responsibility for them. It nearly broke us.

"He's only watching a few videos on you tube I can't believe other people are suggesting you leave him" NO.FUCKING.WAY. Who watches women hating videos for a full year unless they find the subject appealing? Where do you draw the line? Nope not a person I'd want a relationship with

A man who has spent a year researching a misogynistic culture and swallowing the ideology to spout back at his partner in anger isn't just going through a bit of a phase.
And it isn't OP's job to fix him. It is her job to stay safe.

Why would you want to stay with someone who hates you? He might like you as a single person but he hates what you are
Yep, clinging to the fact you aren't like those spiteful horrible women who ruin men's lives, right?

I'd prescribe some 4chan. Just sit and read for a while, if you post and don't know the house style they'll tear you apart. /Pol/ is the politics board, very occasionally left wing, occasionally libertarian, quite often right wing and sometimes outright nazi. /R9k/ is the incels board. (Yes really)
But start with /b/. I hope you have a strong stomach, the only thing that's actually banned is child porn so there is plenty of gore and stolen Snapchats. But read what they think. It's fascinating, and completely unfiltered. Also don't assume it's all young boys, there are men (and a few women) in their 40s and 50s on there.
Peterson is just the genteel face of 4chan, Return of Kings (you'll be sick reading that stuff) or r/theredpill.

Once you've seen for yourself what arguments are being put forward you can unpick some of Peterson's bullshit. A good one for misogynistic racists is to ask why the most male-centric societies,where women are literally chattels, are all shitholes with no science, culture or technology. That gets their heads spinning.

I would actually only confront him with someone you trust in the room.

He hates women. You are a woman.

Confronting him could be dangerous.

I‘ve listened to Jordan Peterson videos. And while I disagree on lots and lots (no, Jordan, I would not be happier in a caring job, because statistics say women prefer that. Leaving aside socialization, male vs female will still be two Gaussian curves with lots of overlap. And, yes, I have seen men with way less knowledge on a scientific issue being taken way more seriously by other, male, scientists. So, sod off), Peterson is right, when it comes to free speech. His argument is that in order for humanity to progress, people must be free to say what they think. 95% (i think it was 95, definitely at least 90) will be bollocks, he says, but by testing your ideas against the counter arguments of others, you learn, you dismiss you develop arguments.
Not sure how open JP is irl to counter arguments, but I do sometimes wonder whether he puts provocative stuff out there to test his own ideas.
Anyway, OP, you can always ask your partner, whether he is aware that JP says of himself that he talks bullshit 95% of the time.

I also have sympathy for JP and his views on freedom of speech - and I believe that all viewpoints can and should be dissected. but you must be critical - it sounds like your husband is not being critical or thinking through the arguments. This is basic, if he is into philosophy...

I like the idea of insisting he read incel websites etc. Let him see with his own eyes where these arguments can truly lead - men who HATE women. Actually really really hate us. I couldn't stay with a man who didn't feel sick reading some of that stuff.

I like the idea of insisting he read incel websites etc
OP should read them, ideally with her partner, but my comment was aimed at her. He's probably already on them.

Yes, our relationship is not great at the moment but surely the sensible things is to try and work things out and find mutual understanding rather than give up without even trying?

He isn't trying, though?

Really, I would get out. I realize you have a huge motivation to fall into the sunk cost fallacy, but do try and really think about his behaviour before this. If there weren't signs before.

Being bullied by girls at school doesn't wipe out all aspects of male privilege.

It especially doesn't wipe out the fact that men can walk home alone at night and not feel threatened.
(If he is so traumatized by bullying that he gets scared when he hears the sound of high heels behind him, then he needs to realize that he's very much an exception.)

I am, again and again, amazed at what levels of hate women tolerate in partners.

Would a Jewish man get into a relationship with a female neonazi and try to explain to her, patiently, over and over, that there isn't a Jewish world conspiracy and actually, the holocaust was real? Somehow, I doubt it.

Yet women get into relationships with MRAs. I don't get it.

I don't expect men I'm romantically interested in to be active feminist allies.
But I wouldn't get (or, hopefully, stay) in a relationship with a man who denies patriarchy.

Has he ‘swallowed The Red Pill’?

(The original Red Pill reddit has been deleted for hate speech. There are still several spin offs: www.reddit.com/r/asktrp/ )

As someone who tried 'working on things' for years, I agree with a PP who said "you don't get those years back". So many times since I've wished that I'd just left as soon as the unreasonable behaviour started, rather than convincing myself it could all be solved if we just tried harder. It always seems to end up with one partner working hard to try to solve the problems, with no input from the other partner.

What's your 'DP' doing to try to save the relationship? Sweet FA.

I couldn't agree more with Juells - people don't get the time back nor any reciprocity for the effort involved.

There's a point beyond which staying in a relationship makes it seem like the attitudes/behaviours are normalised between you. Even if you don't consent to them and protest, the fact that you persist (for sometimes what seem like good reasons) is taken as trumping your objections.

I think the best way to save that relationship might be to end it, paradoxically.

If you end it now, and thereby show him that you won't tolerate that kind of shit, then maybe he'll choose a relationship with you over it.

You have spent 15 years with him. He has spent 15 years with you, and one year with this misogynistic ideology.
If you make him choose between you and misogyny now, he is more likely to choose you than if you let him invest emotionally into misogyny for 10 years more.

Just a thought. Of course that's assuming he hasn't been emotionally invested in misogyny all the time while you were together before he started watching those videos.

OP you mentioned he's an intelligent man, but sadly this has no bearing whatsoever on misogyny.

I've seen Stephen Fry on Twitter spout some misogynistic stuff - he's also glugged the Kool Aid and believes humans can change sex. Richard Dawkins has said some dubious stuff too about biology. Look at the 'woke' students who also put men first.

I'd find it hard to be around somebody who is so easily brainwashed and anti women.

Good luck.

I quite like Jordan Peterson. Having said that I have had friend get a bit too deep into the whole mra mgtow movement. I found the approach that got him out of it was that I told him I was happy to discuss any and all ideas with him respectfully, but the moment any ideology crosses the line and puts it's ideals before flesh and blood people I'm out.

People are always more important than ideas anyway. Casting a negative net over all members of a class/group/minority loses me on a fundemental level. After a few conversations of me pointing out the very serious flaws or implications of his thinking straightened him out in the end though.

Hope things work out positively for you and your fella OP!

It's actually really sad how insidious Jordan Peterson is online. I suggest getting him to watch Sam Seders videos on Jordan Peterson on YouTube. They're pretty hilarious. He basically breaks down how JP is just a misogynist but tries to clock it in an intellectual way.

He can't stand the idea of women having any sort of career, wants them barefoot and pregnant, has said disgusting things about childless women. He's dog whilstled that women wearing makeup deserve sexually harassment. Well more than dog whistled he outright said they're hypocrites if they complain about it.

My boyfriend started watching him and I basically got him to stop. I couldn't be with anyone who shares his disgusting views. He has such a creepy attitude towards women and his incel fans lap it up.

Most of his views are from being a tradcon (traditional conservative) but people think it's from his academic background. I read an article from someone who worked at his University who said he was constantly in getting in trouble for stating his own opinions as though they were facts. He still does this on his online videos and his male fan base laps it up. He's disgusting.

*Same thing happened to my brother. Started reading JP about a year ago and now constantly berates feminism and women - tho he says he loves women (my mum, his GF, and me).

I don't think JP is to blame*

Yes he is. Everytime a Youtuber has a debate with a Jordan Peterson fan they all sound exactly the same. Really creepy and misogynistic, say the exact same things.