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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian editorial on women's rights

29 replies

moofolk · 07/12/2018 22:43

Interesting with recent critique and predictably there's no mention of a Particular Issue talked of a lot round here but a warning on taking progress for granted; notably that "progress towards sexual [not gender] equality should not be taken for granted."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/07/the-guardian-view-on-womens-rights-do-not-take-progress-for-granted?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

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Beamur · 07/12/2018 22:48

I saw that too. Agree with the sentiment and am not taking anything for granted these days!

ContentiousOne · 07/12/2018 23:58

Just saw it now too: it's a pretty stark warning, and comes at an interesting time. The reference to 'sexual equality' not 'gender equality' caught my eye.

hipsterfun · 08/12/2018 00:55

Not clicking on the G.

In context, do they mean sex equality or sexual equality Hmm

BettyFloop · 08/12/2018 01:09

Not clicking on the G

Nor me - those days are long gone. I'll wait for the synopsis on here...

Ereshkigal · 08/12/2018 02:05

notably that "progress towards sexual [not gender] equality should not be taken for granted."

Significant i think. Whoever made that wording choice made it deliberately. I'm often shocked how much people who know they mean sex use "gender" because it's the accepted term.

Ereshkigal · 08/12/2018 02:16

In context, do they mean sex equality or sexual equality

I'm pretty sure judging by the context they mean sex equality.

MrsTerryPratcett · 08/12/2018 02:18

Did a woman write something good about women's rights in the Guardian? Did someone invent time travel and it's the 1980s?

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 08/12/2018 06:48

For people who don't want to click through:

*When Theresa May became prime minister and set out her vision, women were among the groups she promised to champion. She cited unequal pay on a list of “burning injustices” alongside race and class inequalities. This year companies with more than 250 employees were for the first time compelled to report on their gender pay gap. This can be calculated in different ways, but the Office for National Statistics has it at 17.9%, down 0.5% from last year. At this rate it will be decades before women and men are paid the same, but the data is moving in the right direction.

Unfortunately, even such modest progress is the exception rather than the rule in 21st-century Britain. Unpalatable though it may be both to ministers and feminists, the evidence suggests that women’s advancement has stalled and is in danger of going backwards – if it is not doing so already. The government did not accept last year’s finding by the House of Commons Library that 86% of the burden of austerity since 2010 has fallen on women – £79bn, against £13bn for men – and refuses to conduct its own analysis. But work by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, Women’s Budget Group and Runnymede Trust has shown that women, and particularly BAME women, are disproportionately affected by cuts to public services and other spending.

Nine in 10 single parents are women, single female pensioners are more likely to be poor, and poor BAME women face multiple disadvantages even before the effects of cuts are calculated. Last month’s report by UN poverty expert Philip Alston highlighted the impact on single mothers of policies including universal credit. Four women have launched a high court challenge to benefit reforms they claim are discriminatory. The Equality and Human Rights Commission projects that the poverty rate for children in single-parent households will be 62% by 2022. Any economic shock following from Brexit will only exacerbate such hardships.

The bad news is not limited to money. From criminal justice to business to mental health, evidence suggests the position of women is not improving. As complaints of rape have soared, the rate of charging has fallen by 23.1%. The number of women holding boardroom positions has barely changed in a decade. A recent NHS survey found that almost one in four older teenage girls has a mental disorder. While #MeToo raised awareness of the extent of sexual harassment, attempts to hold men to account have in many cases – most recently in the House of Lords – fallen flat. In Northern Ireland, seeking an abortion remains a criminal offence.

The referendum to legalise abortion in Ireland cheered feminists the world over. But last year the World Economic Forum warned that movement towards gender parity was “shifting into reverse”. This week another report highlighted the lack of progress on eradicating child marriage and high rates of domestic violence. In the US, as Margaret Atwood writes in this weekend’s Guardian Review, reproductive rights are under attack as never before.

The current number of female MPs in the UK, 209, is a record. The photos of the recent G20 meeting show just one woman prime minister: Theresa May. The UK can be proud of its progress in some areas, even if it is sometimes slow; and there have been advances in recent years, such as the law broadening the definition of domestic violence. In the scheme of things, however, it is difficult to see how shrinking the state can ever be compatible with reducing inequality between the sexes. Because the greater share of domestic and caring work is undertaken by women, any attack on dependency is, by definition and even if inadvertent, an attack on women.

In 2010 Mrs May, who was then equalities minister, wrote to warn George Osborne that his emergency budget risked worsening the position of women and minorities. Successive waves of cuts since then have hit these groups again and again. The fact that many women are not affected should not blind us to the facts. Progress towards sexual equality must not be taken for granted.*

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 08/12/2018 06:53

I know people accuse us of focussing too much on the self-id issue rather than the issues mentioned in the opinion piece, as though the two things are completely unrelated. However, they aren't! In order to do anything about all the other challenges women face we need to a) be able to define women, and b) be able to identify areas in which they are disadvantaged. If we can't do either of those things with any accuracy we can never do anything about challenging the discrimination, disadvantage and oppression women face.

deepwatersolo · 08/12/2018 07:48

Interesting piece. Now, if the Guardian could provide us with their definition of ‚‘woman‘, we might actually get a clue whose rights they are talking about.

moofolk · 08/12/2018 11:38

Tbh, although I have been well poses off with it in last few years, one thing I have always liked about the guardian is that it doesn't have a solidly cohesive stance on everything.

But editorials, though cautiously worded have given a glimmer of hope.

I remain staggered that the kind of analysis in this editorial is notable - it should be expected - but it is.

And definitely as mentioned by PP if we can't define 'woman' how are we supposed to tackle the issues women face. Hopefully this is acknowledgement by some in the Graun that there is a material reality to women's lived reality.

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BrienneofTERF · 08/12/2018 12:16

I think its a good editorial, it seems people are slowly getting their head around the ‘new and hard to digest fact’ ehm..that women remain disadvantaged and discriminated against in 2018 and beyond, because of their biological sex and because of the gendered behaviour that arises from the biological differences that distinguish them from men. Self-Id tried to force us to deny that reality.

rightreckoner · 08/12/2018 12:19

Too little too late from the Guardian. I’m finally putting my money where my mouth is and boycotting it. I miss the Food supplement but not the daily betrayal of women.

UpstartCrow · 08/12/2018 12:56

I'm sick of seeing comments along the line of 'women in the West don't need to worry about their rights'. It shows a startling amount of ignorance from people who assume we all share their magical amounts of privilege.
This article might be useful to share with people who are somehow able to comment on women's rights but unaware of how other women live.

But its a shame its an opinion piece and not a Guardian article.

silentcrow · 08/12/2018 13:04

These people seem to think that once rights are granted, they're set in stone and you can never go back, so we don't need to worry.

Not one of them paid attention to what's happened Iran and Afghanistan, and they're not looking at America. Rights can be rolled back by whoever's in power.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 08/12/2018 13:05

"I know people accuse us of focussing too much on the self-id issue rather than the issues mentioned in the opinion piece, as though the two things are completely unrelated. However, they aren't! In order to do anything about all the other challenges women face we need to a) be able to define women, and b) be able to identify areas in which they are disadvantaged. If we can't do either of those things with any accuracy we can never do anything about challenging the discrimination, disadvantage and oppression women face."

This.

The inability to define women & girls ie cunty people as a group with our own distinct issues disadvantages legacy of historical oppression etc is non trivial. Whether in the UK, overseas, globally, we face issues which are absolutely tied to our physical reality as female.

To deny this is absolute misogyny with massive consequences for our ability to gather, organise, raise awareness etc.

And this is entirely deliberate - MRAs are piggybacking on this to reduce our status back to "non people >> where we were not so long ago (property, no rights etc)

LangCleg · 08/12/2018 13:14

The Grauniad is going to have to eat some humble pie, join some dots, and be absolutely explicit in its support for sex-based women's rights before I ever give it a click again.

Join the fucking dots, dears. Or fuck off.

ChattyLion · 08/12/2018 21:13

I thought they must have hired someone new when I read that, someone who has looked at the Guardian’s tone to date and has realised how horribly misogynistic it is. I have no idea if that is true but it seems like reading something from a different voice. I really hope that is right..

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 09/12/2018 06:29

And this is entirely deliberate - MRAs are piggybacking on this to reduce our status back to "non people >> where we were not so long ago (property, no rights etc)

Exactly! I've said this before but I think it bears repeating: the modern trans rights movement is not concerned with trans rights in any way whatsoever. It is a misogynist, homophobic, and dare I say it, transphobic campaign to promote the rights of a certain type of man. If anyone doubts this, pop over to a men rights forum and have a look at what they are saying - I suspect you'll notice they are singing from the same hymn sheet as the average TRA.

moofolk · 09/12/2018 21:19

What do you read that isn't the Guardian, just for news? The Independent is fully Kool-Aided up, and everything else is really right wing.

Completely agree in being peak guardian but keep going back for lack of other options. Generally online or app (so not giving them any money). I have the minimal two articles per week in the times, I even subscribed to the spectator on a cheap deal and while I applaud some of their articles on gender, everything else about it just makes me cross.

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rightreckoner · 10/12/2018 07:32

The Times is excellent. Not right wing imho - at least not as right wing as the Spectator. The Times has done all the journalism on this thanks to Janice Turner, Andrew Gilligan, Lucy Bannerman. And Jenni Russell doesn’t write on this topic but her Twitter feed is fully sceptical so she’s one to watch too.

Luglio · 10/12/2018 07:39

I've gone over to the Telegraph. Don't miss the G at all, and I was an avid reader.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 10/12/2018 07:50

The Grauniad is going to have to eat some humble pie, join some dots, and be absolutely explicit in its support for sex-based women's rights before I ever give it a click again.

👆this

Horsewithnomane · 10/12/2018 08:38

The guardian and all who sail in her know exactly what they can do.

I won't be clicking either.

lucydo · 10/12/2018 09:18

what do I read? The FT every Saturday. Excellent journalism, probably some bias, but less than other broadsheets. And, as I said in another thread, in the last issue, they had a list of Women of 2018. And they were all women.

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