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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour party - misogyny, anti-Semitic accusations and court hearing - Jennifer James

26 replies

CheerChristmas · 04/12/2018 12:33

I don't know Jennifer and her views on people of her own religious class.

I do agree with her democratic right to take a case to court.

So Labour are now the communist religion is opium socialist party and no longer a socialist democratic party?

mobile.twitter.com/msjenniferjames/status/1069567031937327105

OP posts:
arranbubonicplague · 04/12/2018 12:39

Click: mobile.twitter.com/msjenniferjames/status/1069567031937327105

OlennasWimple · 04/12/2018 16:01

Does anyone know how the Labour Party case against Margaret Hodge ended?

SolidarityGdansk · 04/12/2018 17:50

She only indentifies as Jewish when convenient

Labour party - misogyny, anti-Semitic accusations and court hearing - Jennifer James
PositivelyPERF · 04/12/2018 17:53

She only indentifies as Jewish when convenient

So what? I only identify as Catholic, when I hear about people behaving with bigotry towards Catholic people. There is still that instinct to protect those that others are behaving wrongly against.

LovesLaboursLost · 04/12/2018 17:58

The stuff she says about Ruth Smeeth is pure repetition of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. I’d rather people who thought like that weren’t in the party but based on cases I’ve seen she won’t be expelled for that. She’d probably be offered training, if anything.

(The trans stuff I have no clue about what the approach would be.)

SolidarityGdansk · 04/12/2018 18:02

“It’s useful when arguing against Zionists” in reply to the antisemite Gilad Atzmon

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/gilad-atzmon-forced-to-ask-supporters-for-funds-after-campaign-against-antisemitism-libel-lawsuit-1.473179

SolidarityGdansk · 04/12/2018 18:09

Actuallly she is not replying to Atzmon, but tagging him in to make sure he sees her comment.

Why would someone tag an known holocaust denier and anti Semite into that?

RJFirth · 04/12/2018 18:15

I hope they throw the book at her.

SolidarityGdansk · 04/12/2018 18:22

RJfirth.

agreed

Badmoonsarising · 04/12/2018 18:24

She is hardline and unfogiving for anyone who has different views. I agree with her on Labour’s abysmal policy on transwomen having access to everything female - but that’s possibly about all.

PositivelyPERF · 04/12/2018 18:28

I’d say she’s well able to throw facts at them, but of course that’s heresy. The truth must not be spoken. Women are who men say they are. She has had the nerve to break the rules of misogyny so must be punished by the men in power.

SkullPointerException · 04/12/2018 18:29

She only indentifies as Jewish when convenient

So what? So do I. The whole god and Moses and whatnot stuff is utter hogwash anyway, and race - while always a welcome excuse for bigots - is essentially a social construct. So, unless it happens to be situationally useful: why should I care?

And, yes, Atzmon is bonkers and pretty vile at times. But then, so are Bibi Netanyahu and his right-wing cronies. At least Atzmon doesn't have one of the world's most powerful militaries at his disposal.

I'm really not quite getting what you're implying. That she's automatically wrong because Atzmon?

SillySallySingsSongs · 04/12/2018 18:30

Does anyone know how the Labour Party case against Margaret Hodge ended?

It was dropped as was their case against Ian Austin.

SillySallySingsSongs · 04/12/2018 18:36

She is hardline and unfogiving for anyone who has different views. I agree with her on Labour’s abysmal policy on transwomen having access to everything female - but that’s possibly about all.

This.

Some of the stuff over Ruth Smeeth case was vile.

GenderApostate · 04/12/2018 21:00

What happened with Ruth Smeeth? DH knows her in a charity capacity and has only good things to say about her.

SillySallySingsSongs · 04/12/2018 21:26

What happened with Ruth Smeeth? DH knows her in a charity capacity and has only good things to say about her.

I've met her a few times and she is lovely.

There was an incident at the antisemitism in the Labour party report that Shami C did with a Labour party member and someone who knows JC quite well It was awful and quite upsetting fof her.

Goigle it. There is video footage.

stumbledin · 05/12/2018 18:18

SillySallySingsSongs

If you are referring to Marc Wadsworth, who seems to be an incredibly self important male politico, whose lack of judgement permitted him to make an ill time intervention at the launch of the anti semitism report, what he said was in no way anti semitic. www.obv.org.uk/news-blogs/why-exactly-was-marc-wadsworth-expelled

He was rude and inappropiate, given the context of the meeting, but didn't say anyting or infer anything about her race. He was accusing her of being a Tory conspirator.

What happened during that media frenzy of reporting about anti semitism in the Labour party was that 2 prominent black activists were publicly got rid of, and nothing was done about the online antisemitism (which given how quick they are in tracking down women on social media not supporting self id), seems really strange. Particularly in the case of Jackie Walker.

The high level of emotions whipped up by the media allowed the conflation of being anti Zionist to be the same as being anti semitic.

I know many Labour activists who find Ruth Smeeth embarrassing.

stumbledin · 05/12/2018 18:25

re Margaret Hodge

It must have been a moment of complete irony for Jeremy Corbyn to be attacked by Margaret Hodge when as part of the Labour Party in North London they stood by her when it was revealed the extend of cover up by Islington Council over child abuse. And of course the then sustained attack on the 2 women who tried to get this dealt with. Another really seedy moment in party politics.

archive.islingtontribune.com/news/2014/sep/islington-child-abuse-scandal-haunts-margaret-hodge-politician-poised-run-mayor-london

SkullPointerException · 05/12/2018 18:46

So, in all fairness: the anti-semitism debate is a minefield. There really is a genuine, vile undercurrent of actual anti-semitism in leftist as well as right-wing discourse. OTOH, it's also true that "anti-semite" has often been abused by pro-Israel activists and lobbyists in pretty much the same way as "transphobe" has been used by TRAs, i.e. in order to paint anyone opposing their position as a bigot. Or, if you happen to be partially Jewish (like myself), you're branded a "self-hating Jew" for insisting that the Occupation is fundamentally wrong and that past (or even present, in some cases) victimhood doesn't grant automatic immunity from the perpetrator label. And then again, some individuals (such as the aforementioned Atzmon) are genuinely insane, vile and insufferable in equal measure despite being more Jewish than e.g. myself.

Personally, I think it's pretty pointless to try and conflate the issues on this one - somewhat ironically because they're just a tad too similar: both the anti-semitism debate and the trans one happen to suffer from dedicated supporters of a cause trying to muddy the waters between actual bigotry, which must be condemned, and outrage over others daring to disagree.

It is no more anti-semitic to assert that the Israeli treatment of Palestinians is morally wrong than it is transphobic to insist that individuals with a penis are male. At the same time, both the claim that Israeli policy is being driven by a Jewish desire to achieve world domination and the notion that trans people are unnatural freaks are genuinely bigoted and should be opposed as such.

Somewhat confusingly, some of the very same people who get it generally right on the question of Israeli policy and, as a result, tend to be a tad too unfortunately tolerant towards those whose motives may not be entirely grounded in human rights are also the people who seem to be taking the line that "TWAW and if you disagree GDIAF, TERF" line. After about three drinks, I start to see the funny aspect.

ouda · 05/12/2018 19:13

I'm surprised you're surprised, Skull. Both anti-Zionists (often aka anti-Semites) and TRAs (often aka MRAs) are very, very convinced that they exist on a morally higher plane and that their particular cause wins the Oppression Olympics.

It's no accident that people who are willing to overlook 6 million dead Jews and 2,000 years of Jews being attacked as Christ-killers are also equally willing to overlook millenia of patriarchal oppression - when these Inconvenient Facts don't fit in with their pet 'truths'.

The lot - nominally on the left though in reality indistinguishable from the far right - who themselves come from generally privileged, white straight backgrounds yet pretend to speak for Palestinians they have never met or transpeople they don't give a fig for, care about these causes only insofar as it gives them an excuse to attack the groups they are really out to get - namely women and Jews.

As a Jewish woman I'm tired of this shit. Both lots of shit.

ouda · 05/12/2018 19:14

Being anti-Semitic never helped a single Palestinian.

Being a misogynist never helped a single genuine transperson.

SillySallySingsSongs · 05/12/2018 19:16

I know many Labour activists who find Ruth Smeeth embarrassing.

I know loads who don't. HTH

ouda · 05/12/2018 19:18

And I'm pretty disgusted by the baseless attacks on this thread on Margaret Hodge and Ruth Smeeth.

Jewish female politicians are MASSIVELY in the firing line - they get astonishing amounts of abuse from both the far left and the far right. Death threats, rape threats, disgusting Holocaust references. Unutterably depressing to see attacks on them here, on a site for and by women.

ouda · 05/12/2018 19:20

I think Jewish female MPs like Ruth Smeeth, Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger are fucking heroes for what they put up with. I can't imagine how they cope.

I'm very grateful for everything they do.

SillySallySingsSongs · 05/12/2018 19:53

I think Jewish female MPs like Ruth Smeeth, Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger are fucking heroes for what they put up with. I can't imagine how they cope.

Completely agree