Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2

Original poster

How do you cope with the hate?

34 replies

cherryontop00 · 01/12/2018 21:59

I usually post on tumblr rather than mumsnet but I hope people don't mind me posting here. I wanted advice from people who are older and probably know better than people my age (late teens).

For the most part, what I read doesn't bother me, but sometimes things get stuck in my head and I can't shake them off. I've read that "lesbians are just broken transmen" and that's stuck in my head and made me wonder if there's something wrong with me. I've been called 'creepy' and 'gross' for saying I wouldn't have sex with anyone with a penis. There's a post going around saying that same-sex attraction is disgusting (because it's transphobic) and that hurts me too. Then there's countless posts calling lesbians creepy vagina fetishists and that really gets to me because even though I know there's nothing wrong with being attracted to women, I really struggle already with feeling predatory or creepy in general when I'm around my crushes and to know then thousands of people genuinely believe I am a creep because I only like women makes it even harder for me to accept that I'm gay and that it's okay to be gay. People (on tumblr) act like the biggest crime is not having sex with a man and sometimes it makes me feel like there's something really really wrong with me because I'm not attracted to men at all.

Then, I also don't understand why radfems/terfs are hated so much. Again, for the most part it doesn't bother me (well, it bothers me that people talk so violently about hurting 'terfs', but it doesn't usually bother me on a personal level), but the other day someone called radfems "scum of the earth" and that's stuck with me. Why would you call someone who believes women don't have penises the scum of the earth, when there's rapists and murderers and abusers out there? There's people who bend over backwards to defend bdsm and prostitution, but the minute you say you don't support porn they act like you're the worst person on earth and tell you to kill yourself.

This is a vent more than actual feminist discussion, but I'm hoping someone has some advice. If I don't read anything then I don't get upset like this, but I think it's important to be in the loop with everything that's happening (+ I think it's important to read what TRAs have to say because I think it's important to hear both sides of the argument), so I don't want to just stop reading forums.

OP posts:

IstanbulConstan · 01/12/2018 22:02

Can you place link some examples?

HestiaParthenos · 01/12/2018 22:04

Take regular breaks from engaging with TRAs. That's what I have found to be helpful.

I don't really think you have to read what TRAs write online on purpose. They are almost everywhere, you will hear their side of the argument whether you want to or not.

You get some here, too, it seems, and this is a feminist forum.

HestiaParthenos · 01/12/2018 22:05

Oh, I forgot: Are you active in any radfem spaces? I mean, real radfem spaces.

I think most people on here just are regular feminists who are a bit surprised that their kind of feminism is now called "radical".

PerfectPenquins · 01/12/2018 22:09

Honestly stay away from that shit, the people using that disgusting, absuive, rape language are foul human beings. This is a vile movement within the trans activists community who actually are very concerning in the way they think. I’d be concerned they are likely to be abusers with those kinds of views.
You are not wrong, you are not disgusting and being a lesbian is nothing wrong or creepy or transphobic. Please don’t listen to them or give them head space.

zzzzz · 01/12/2018 22:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SignMeUp · 01/12/2018 22:24

I'm not sure how, but I think young lesbians need to hang out in real life with older proud lesbians. Maybe a sort of mentor or support connection. They tend to be rather invisible. I commend you for your strong sense of self and critical thinking as a teen in this charged climate. Come here and rant whenever you want!

JuniLoolaPalooza · 01/12/2018 22:31

People (on tumblr) act like the biggest crime is not having sex with a man and sometimes it makes me feel like there's something really really wrong with me because I'm not attracted to men at all.

I've always been GC/peak trans but this shit is what keeps me awake at night. OP, it's bullshit, you're through the looking glass. You. Are. Not. Wrong. As I have ranted before and will again, a huge part of this TRA agenda is sexually abusing young women and girls in the name of inclusivity and I cannot stand it.

I have never been on Tumblr and suggest you stick around here! Or maybe follow some of the brilliant GC women on Twitter.

HestiaParthenos · 01/12/2018 22:39

Two posts, and I forgot the main thing I wanted to say:

I think being in radfem spaces would massively benefit you.

It is like a breath of fresh air after being on tumblr.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 01/12/2018 22:41

Come off Tumblr. Seriously.

hipsterfun · 02/12/2018 01:09

It’s not you, it’s them. You’re fine

Following the logic, I’d be a penis fetishist. I can live with that utter fucking nonsense devised by people with issues so huge as to be visible from space

Mrskeats · 02/12/2018 01:13

Just know it’s not you. They are the creepy ones. Your preferences are your business and they have no right to try and dictate.
The lesbians are broken trans men thing makes me furious on your behalf. Disgusting.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 01:41

It sounds as though you really could use a break from reading, let alone engaging with, these homophobic misogynists.

You're welcome here.

CottonTailRabbit · 02/12/2018 01:51

I think it's important to read what TRAs have to say because I think it's important to hear both sides of the argument), so I don't want to just stop reading forums.

Why would, you, a lesbian hang out where homophobic loons are spouting their homophobic vitriol. The vast majority of the population would be appalled if they saw what was on those forums. Those loons are not showing you a side of a rational argument. They are homophobic, deeply lesbophobic. They are not normal. Stay away from them. Find some nice normal lovely lesbians to hang with instead.

Frequenting those forums is a form of self harm. If you are struggling with your lesbianism, seeking out the most lesbophobic corner of the internet is not helpful.

Rattinghat · 02/12/2018 02:17

You've done your duty by reading both sides of the argument. The people writing that hateful stuff have severe psychological issues. You wouldn't read endless forums written by people with Munchausen syndrome, or that disease where people want their limbs amputated, because you would recognise that too much exposure to it would mess with your head. This is just the same.

Now stay off tumblr, get out in the world and enjoy hanging out with some real women.

SignMeUp · 02/12/2018 02:51

Every word in this thread! Verbatim, this would make a great article for some large well respected magazine. People need to hear it

IdaBWells · 02/12/2018 06:38

The ridiculous idea of lesbians being “vagina fetishists” for being sexually attracted to women is a new one created by very angry men who feel entitled to women’s bodies. A biological woman is more than her vagina she is female in every cell because of her chromosomes. It’s not just our wonderful vaginas that make us women it is every single bodily part of us. It would only be a man who would reduce a woman to her vagina. Never be ashamed because you are attracted to the unique bodily sexuality of women. Remember, your attraction is a SEXUAL attraction, not an attraction based on gender.

I would suggest you stay away from toxic online environments and hang out here and in similar spaces, also watch movies made by women and feminists. Be aware that so much of the media we consume is created by men with a male perspective and a male gaze.

I am not a lesbian but the development of so much recent ideology in the last couple of decades which denigrates lesbians makes me extremely angry and is so clearly misogynistic. It’s a good idea to reach out to older women because we know a lot of these ideas have developed during our lifetime and can tell you exactly where it came from and help you trace it’s history so you don’t believe this crap that “it’s always been this way” as a new orthodoxy.

ContentiousOne · 02/12/2018 06:45

Do you watch Arielle Scarella ? She's a lesbian youtuber - trans friendly, but also lesbian friendly. Here's a link to her latest video which you might find helpful. Sorry, don't know how to do clicky links.

I think it might be nice for you to hear another young lesbian call out the 'genital preference' shit.

ContentiousOne · 02/12/2018 06:48

Oh, it clicky linked itself!

SonEtLumiere · 02/12/2018 06:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

quixote9 · 02/12/2018 08:20

That's new to me, and I thought I'd heard everything. I mean the business about same-sex attraction being transphobic.

There are obviously some trans people who think everything everwhere always is only about them. Narcissists to equal Trump. :huge shocked face here: Figured that dogpile had to be a one-off.

As Lumiere says, if you think that way, then trans is homophobic. You're instantly through the looking glass and into deep nonsense.

Stay away from that garbage is my advice. It'll mess with your mind and make you do stupid things sooner or later. Hanging with the cool kids isn't worth it.

ChewyLouie · 02/12/2018 08:30

Everytime you think of reading Tumblr think about the people behind the keyboards ie how many are predators and creeps projecting on to others. You don’t need to listen to their bile and revolting crap. Access spaces that support who you are to stay in the loop. Btw, I shouldn’t have to say this as it’s obvious but nothing at all ‘wrong’ with being a lesbian, perfectly natural.

moofolk · 02/12/2018 10:08

Get off tumblr

ErrolTheDragon · 02/12/2018 10:51

If you want to see both sides from a more helpful POV maybe look for some videos of Magdalen Berns taking down Riley.

I get the impression that TRA types are generally on the page of supporting all manner of fetishes and kinks.... so even if you for one moment accepted their ridiculous label why exactly is this the only one which seems objectionable? Clue.... check the rules of misogyny (2,3,5 I reckon)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gender Critical/comments/6kkeni/theerules offmisogyny/

QuentinWinters · 02/12/2018 11:46

I know there's nothing wrong with being attracted to women, I really struggle already with feeling predatory or creepy in general when I'm around my crushes
Stop this right now. There is nothing predatory or creepy about being sexually attracted to someone and feeling nervous/,butterflies when they are around. That's a crush.
Predatory/creepy means not taking no for an answer and assuming your right to sexual gratification is the most important thing. Staring/ogling/groping/making lewd comments. You aren't doing that.
You can't help who you are attracted to and attraction is natural, not creepy.

PimmsnLemonade · 02/12/2018 11:48

I'm finding it tough as an older lesbian hearing all this stuff and seeing how much things are sliding backwards for us so I can only imagine what it must be like for younger lesbians now.

I always used to actively avoid reading stuff by Men's Rights Activists, incels homophobes etc but with this - although it's very similar - it's easy to get sucked in, and I feel that I need to follow it to a degree because it has become so influential and these attitudes aren't just on some small corner of the internet, these are increasingly the attitudes that seem to be more widely prevalent - particularly in LGBT circles, which should be the one place lesbians can take refuge from homophobic attitudes.

But still I think it's best to try to limit the time you spend online in those environments or - now you've seen it directly for yourself - to primarily hear what's going on through other forums e.g. I can follow what's going on through Mumsnet with links to what TRAs are doing but in a context where most of the posters here don't think lesbians are bigots and need to 're-educate' ourselves to have sex with people-with-penises.

I don't know if you are on any forums or sites which are pro-lesbian, but, if not, I'd recommended www.afterellen.com and www.reddit.com/r/truelesbians/

Flip

1 2