Engagement rings

[PerverseConverse]

I've just read this and found it interesting. I'd never thought of engagement rings from a feminist point of view.

I'm divorced but still wear mine because it's something I wanted from the moment I went into Tiffany's in New York with my mum and said I'd buy myself one one day. It has no sentimental attachment to it from my exH but it means a lot to me. I've tried wearing it on my right hand but it doesn't fit as well and gives me an itchy rash. I think soap gets stuck under it. Maybe I should have it resized.

I've no intention of ever getting married again and don't care that people will think I'm "taken" as I wear it because I love it and I paid for it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-45797780

Engagement rings have a history that is something of a double edged sword

On the one hand, they were part of a contract whereby one man agreed with another man to transfer property into his ownership, and duly marked said property with a visible sign that such a transaction was to be completed.

However - the engagement ring is owned by the woman. Not her fiance, not her father / family, it's her's. It acts as a surety that the man will indeed turn up and marry her, and it gives her a small (or sometimes, huge) amount of personal wealth in the event of something going wrong

Although my husband has just read the BBC article of his own volition and brought it to show me with the suggestion that we take my ring for a refund

We had a long discussion about it, and our compromise was that I would have the traditional engagement ring, and he would have his ring of the matching wedding bands we chose at the same time. So in effect he wore a ring from the date we got engaged. Two years later we had both bands engraved with the wedding date and our initials. We were both uncomfortable with the "claiming" aspect, but it was also important for us to have a symbol that we were "in it together" for the long haul well before we could afford a wedding.

I did take his name, but purely because my family name is easy to ridicule and his is boring. It was a no-brainer to save our future kids from the crap I went through. I'm still proud of my forebears even if I don't carry the name. It would have been a harder choice if I'd had a less "interesting" surname, though, I'm not sure what we would have decided. I hope my girls keep theirs, really, having watched my sister try to figure out what to do during divorce.

Being "given away" grated much more. I subverted as much as I could wherever possible, though. I had a best man and no bridesmaids!

You know what, I was thinking, if I never got married, I would have probably bought myself a beautiful ring to wear regardless.
Even though I am actually married, i’m Still thinking about buying myself a ring.....

StUmbrage

I think because the name is passed down the male line. Obviously even my mother's maiden name is her fathers too.

I would like names to come down the female line

I don’t have an engagement ring because it felt like a mark of ownership while a wedding band didn’t as we both wear one.

I also give literally zero shits about other women choosing to wear one. Personal choice innit?

Never seen the point of engagement rings, but then, both my wedding to a man and civil partnership to a woman involved only 2 and 3 'guests' respectively, the wearing of clothes already possessed and a quiet meal for the 4/5 of us afterwards. For the first one, we went to and from the register office on the bus.

I think you do what makes you happy, but with the caveat that spending utter shedloads of cash on one day is madness.

What's the big deal. If you don't want one don't wear one, if you want equality go spend your money buying him one. I know plenty of couples who both wear engagement rings.
As for it being a symbol of being taken... Since when do wedding rings and engagement rings put people off... These boards are full of affairs.

A bit like SilentCrow, I changed my name after my first marriage (even though first husband was a twat), but really for aesthetic reasons - my birth surname was an often ridiculed adjective, and I was completely sick of it. I didn't take my (lovely) second husband's name and he couldn't care less. I suspect the PIL's are a bit puzzled, though.
If you ever emigrate, trust me, you'll see the justification for being married. It simplifies many, many things.

I didn't view my dad as giving me away it will take more than a marriage for him to get shot of me , more like escorting me down the aisle. I carried my baby too, which is not exactly traditional.
These traditions can mean whatever you want them too really, regardless of their roots.

Iwannesee was your husband also escorted up the aisle by one of his parents?

The choices we make aren't made in a vacuum; yes we are free/r to make choices as women now than in the past, but that doesn't mean what's on offer isn't still limited by patriarchal values, symbols and traditions.

I took my husband's name (happy to shed the name of my abusive father) and I was escorted down the aisle by my stepfather. At the time I saw it as a way to include him in the wedding, especially as he has no children of his own.

If I was making these choices now, they would likely be different ones, but I accept that I was living within a narrower paradigm at the time. I am, however, raising my daughters to recognise the patriarchal roots of these traditions and introduce an awareness that they can make choices outside of the social norms.

Feminism isn't just about having the choice between A or B, it's about breaking down the barriers that stop women from seeing all the other options from C to Z.

We actually did both have engagement rings, but even so, looking back I don't think I'd want us to do the whole formal proposal and engagement thing. Was quite young at the time and hadn't really thought much about it, though I was a feminist and was working with trafficked women at the time. Now, I'm not so comfortable with the connotations.

I'd differentiate the engagement stuff from marriage in this respect, because as the legal contract that offers the best protection to the majority of women in our society, marriage is clearly capable of being a feminist act.

No engagement ring here. We were living together when we decided to get married and didn't really consider ourselves to be engaged or have entered some kind of engagement period. Plus, I don't much like jewellery so wouldn't have wanted one. We both do have wedding rings though.

I think an engagement ring is a gesture, a proposition, will you be mine and symbolised with a ring. No other connotations. You can always say no, my fella wouldn't want a glitzy ring it's just tradition, but I would. And this whole "you belong to him" far as I'm concerned I do belong to him and him to me. No control or dictation over each other just a mutual partnership. Shit like this gives feminism a bad name

But why, easielouisie, does it typically only happen in one direction? Why do women outwardly show that they are taken where men do not?

It's not a huge issue, it's a simple discussion about a feature of our culture. I find it baffling that you think this would give feminism a bad name. How does that work exactly?

In many countries both men and women wear an engagement ring (Scandinavian for ex) they also more often than not walk down the isle together. No one is given away. Two adults making life choices for themselves.

Considering that engagement rings used to be an insurance for a woman who risked her reputation in being alone with a man, I think they were feminist in that they were a way to protect women from some of the negative effects patriarchy naturally has on women.

I have thought long and hard about it and decided that instead of an engagement ring, I will ask my future fiance to give me the sum of money needed to survive six years of single motherhood (until the child starts primary school) in case something goes wrong and I end up single and pregnant. It seems just more modern and practical.

Unlike an engagement ring, which you can sell used only at a lower price, all of that money can then be used for a different purpose once I reach menopause and the child(ren) are grown up.

If a husband wanted one I'm sure he could have one, or a wife not have one if she liked. I think it's just whatever you want personally, tradition can be taken or left. I don't think wearing a ring implys you're oppressed or lesser than a man. It gives feminism a bad name because it's nit picking at its finest, can't we focus on important issues instead? Seems pretty trivial

When my ex husband and I got engaged, we also bought him a watch that he wanted.

something small, of high value that I own and travels with me. We live in a patriarchy and I don't get any choice about living with most of the negatives so I may as well enjoy a positive.

If you ever emigrate, trust me, you'll see the justification for being married. It simplifies many, many things

Very true

Although, to tie into the conversation about name changing, I currently live in a country where women tend to keep their maiden name so official ID etc is set up to reflect that. After 15 years of being Mrs MarriedName, it's very weird to have ID that says Mrs MaidenName, with my married name down as an additional name in the notes section

It's really not something I can get worked up about.

A pretty, shiny piece of jewellery that's worth a lot of money? GET IN.

That's all it means to me really. But then, I like all things sparkly. And I just don't have time to think about things as trivial as these; there's actual work to be done in feminism, real issues to contend with, and whether or not a woman chooses to wear a pretty ring is not one of them.

I wear an engagement ring. It does show I'm "taken". I couldn't care less. I am. So is he. But I'm not owned lol.

My other half would wear an engagement ring if I bought him one. I haven't so he doesn't.

Lesbians wear engagement rings. Both women, so I can't get my head round why your seen as less of a feminist for wearing one.

Surely it's only seen as ownership by people
Stuck in the past with outdated views.

I have never classed myself as a
Feminist as
Such as I've never thought about it.

However I'm ex army, I did very well there, now I work in a male dominated industry and. I'm doing very well there too.
I've also had my boobs and teeth done, have Botox and lip fillers 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I see myself as equal to all my male colleagues and if they don't think the same,
Tough shit for them.

@itsbritney
My other half would wear an engagement ring if I bought him one. I haven't so he doesn't. This is why it is related to feminism. Nobody is saying you are wrong to have one at all, nobody is saying it means you are owned by your other half or anything like that, but it IS linked to the principles of feminism. The same way as women wearing makeup or dresses is.