Engagement rings

[PerverseConverse]

I've just read this and found it interesting. I'd never thought of engagement rings from a feminist point of view.

I'm divorced but still wear mine because it's something I wanted from the moment I went into Tiffany's in New York with my mum and said I'd buy myself one one day. It has no sentimental attachment to it from my exH but it means a lot to me. I've tried wearing it on my right hand but it doesn't fit as well and gives me an itchy rash. I think soap gets stuck under it. Maybe I should have it resized.

I've no intention of ever getting married again and don't care that people will think I'm "taken" as I wear it because I love it and I paid for it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-45797780

GenderIsAPrison do you ever think about the fact that it is socially significant for a woman to wear an engagement ring, but not at all socially significant for men to do the same? Why is it different? Why is it meaningful for a woman to display visibly that she is not available for a relationship, but that doesn't matter for men?

I absolutely agree they're a patriarchal symbol

And I'm still wearing mine, and I still got married.

Because like every other human being I'm not perfect at being anything including feminist. (I consider myself a strong feminist)

Perhaps we should all cut other women a break? We are all part of the patriarchy and we all have to choose our line in the sand. There are feminists wearing clothes from (mostly female) child labour because in this society they say they can't afford anything else - and who am I to say different?

My DFiance wore his late fathers wedding ring on his right ring finger before we got engaged.

When we got engaged and a ring came in the equation, he took it on his own accord to start wearing his ring on the left ring finger.

Why should I have to look 'taken' but he look like a 'free man'?

Works for us!

Laury, I don't think it's about criticising women who wear engagement rings, or saying they're not a good enough feminist. But I think it's reasonable to discuss the origins and background to it, and look at what it comes from.

Perfectly reasonable to discuss it

It's not about criticising engagement rings but honestly didn't it enter your (general your) heads to wonder why only 1 half of the couple wears one?

They are a visible sign that this woman is no longer available.

Engagement rings and changing your surname are about the least feminist things I can think of doing.

I should perhaps say I love jewellry but don't like wedding rings in general. I don't really see why either party has to display their "taken" status.

No it didn't really enter my head 20 plus years ago

And even if it did I'm pointing out I would still wear one as I'm not a perfect feminist

(I've never changed my name, unfortunately I still have my fathers name - yet again patriarchal)

You have your name in the same way your husband has his name. I hate this idea women don't own their names.

Assassinated. I hear you, from a pragmatic point of view I just choose not to think about it from a totally feminist view point.
I didn’t bother me that I wore an engagement ring for extra months before he had to wear the wedding band as well. I see it as a thing of beauty and commitment.
You may well think I’m not a good enough feminist and I guess that’s why I don’t label myself as one, or identify as one, but then being a feminist doesn’t define me, and that s ok , I think.

I am a feminist but I love jewellery. So I was thrilled to receive a big fat diamond when I got engaged. And I love wearing it every day. My husband hates the feeling of a ring so he doesn’t wear his wedding band. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

Of course they are linked. Doesn’t mean that women can’t choose to wear an engagement ring. Isn’t that the point of feminism - to give women the choice to wear a ring, not wear a ring, go to work, not go to work, marry, don’t marry, wear make up, don’t wear make up. Basically, engagements have historical patriarchal roots in negotiating marriage agreements. But we are now in the 21st century and there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I absolutely do not think you're a "not good enough feminist". I think we all make our own personal choices for our own reasons.

Discussing the reasons for the imbalance around engagement rings is not a criticism of any individual's decision.

I can't get too worked up over this. I'm a lesbian with an engagement ring. I was given it when DW proposed. She doesn't wear one because I didn't ask. I can never really square these attitudes towards feminism up. The issue isn't the objects but rather that women aren't equally given societal approval to do so themselves.

I’ve always felt this about engagement rings, and wedding rings come to that. I have a wedding band that was used on the day (DH doesn’t, he doesn’t like them) but I very seldom wear it. I know I’m thought of by some friends and relations as a party pooper who has to spoil the nice idea of some jewellery with my options. It irks me that they can’t see how fucked up the whole idea is.

Tripping can you explain a bit more what you mean by "The issue isn't the objects but rather that women aren't equally given societal approval to do so themselves."

No engagement ring here, we both had wedding rings but both of us rapidly decided they were a nuisance.

He didn't take my name, I didn't take the name he used from his previous marriage and our kids have my surname.

We're hardcore. LOL

I think I'd like one as a nice piece of jewellery. Though if he's buying me a diamond he's not the one!

I like that we can have a discussion about this from many sides. I'm a feminist & definitely see the trouble with marriage / the historical institution that has been carried over into a big party that you must spend lavishly for

Anyway, as a single woman, I would like rings but yes they cannot be divorced (lol) from the context they arose in

Sorry I'm shit at explaining things in posts rather than talking; I usually avoid debates on FWR as I'm not as articulate as the regular crowd! .

I mean, it's not the acts (eg changing names, proposing) or the objects (eg engagement rings) that are the problem. It's the notion and expectation that these things are only appropriate for one sex. Doing away with these things and making them bad won't help. We need to tackle sex based stereotypes so that it is acceptable for everyone to partake in either/any without an attached stigma. So for example women can propose, men can change their name without being judged. Does that make sense?

Laurie why is it your father's name but not your name? If your partner's name is his why isn't the surname you used from birth yours?

I use the same name as my father. If I were male apparently that would mean it was mine and I could give it to my wife and my children. As I am female, LOLWUT? I've behaved as if I were male and kept my surname, given it to my children and given my partner the option of taking my surname. He declined and it's all good.

I stopped wearing my engagement and wedding rings a few years ago. I came to see them as symbols of being owned, not a feminist perspective just my own personal feelings.This doesn’t mean I see those who wear them in agreement with being owned, it is personal choice. But then I think marriage itself is pretty meaningless ( apart from any legal advantages) so not surprising I’m not keen on rings.

I don’t think whether or not you choose to adopt a symbolic piece of jewellery matters in the slightest. Not worth giving a thought to, it’s basically a fashion choice. There are plenty of less visible things within a marriage that are genuinely a question of feminism. Like whether you give up having your own separate finances. How you share domestic chores and childcare. Whether you take on doing his wifework. Whose career is taken seriously. Those things matter.

I wear a ring of great sentimental value given to me by my sister on my 'wedding finger' despite not being married, and never intending to marry, despite having been with DP for over 15 years. It's the only finger it fits. The thought of marriage makes me feel uncomfortable, but each to their own.

I agree with that 100% tripping.
I would only choose a man who was ok with me proposing and potentially willing to change his name (no need but I couldn't be with a man who wouldn't even consider it but expect me to change to his).
Like I said, I would get dp a ring, and I'd like one too. I think it would be a nice thing to have, that's all, plus I want a sparkly ring!

Yes, Tripping, I understand what you mean. And you're right that it isn't the objects themselves that are the issue, it's the sex based stereotypes surrounding them. That's why I think it's interesting and useful to discuss the history and the social attitudes towards things like engagement rings.