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Original poster

In defence of deadnaming

606 replies

welshgendercrit · 28/11/2018 14:43

For ‘deadnaming’ is just a Newspeak word designed to demonise the telling of historical truths. Not satisfied with seeking to control contemporary discussion and attitudes, now trans activists and their allies (all institutions, in essence) want to control the past itself. History. No way. The past happened, it was true, and we should not allow that to be erased and forgotten just to make some people feel better about themselves.

Yet again spiked (which I never used to read) has written a good, hardhitting, sensible article on transactivism.

www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/11/in-defence-of-deadnaming/

OP posts:
ScottCheggJnr · 22/12/2018 00:13

Scott , yr statement doesn’t stand re plus size females as I’d say plenty wouldn’t give a fig about someone saying they are fat.

Only the 'big is beautiful' brigade IME. Most women seem to be very sensitive about their weight - see all the threads in AIBU where posters have been offended after having asked their partner for an honest appraisal and not liked the answer! There was another one very recently.

endchauvinism · 22/12/2018 00:14

The burden of proof lies on those transitioning. They need to prove the brains of trans people are different, like the opposite sex. And that still wouldn't be enough for many people like myself who believe our bodies are a huge part of what makes us male or female.

ScottCheggJnr · 22/12/2018 00:30

The burden of proof lies on those transitioning. They need to prove the brains of trans people are different, like the opposite sex.

Possibly. But one could also say that women need to prove that they're equal to men if they expect to be treated as such.

SonEtLumiere · 22/12/2018 05:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 22/12/2018 07:13

Ah, whatabouttery. Typical attempt at derailing a thread.

The scroll button is helpful in these instances.

NonExistentFox · 22/12/2018 07:43

If I then start posting on her Facebook page "Why are you so fat?"; deluge her email inbox with the same question; plant some lovely summer flowers in my garden (visible from her garden) that spell out the word "FAT"; wear a t-shirt saying "Why are you so fat?" when I am out in my garden; and hire a plane to fly over the neighbourhood with a banner saying "Why are you so fat?" - I would hope that the police would knock on my door and tell me to give it a break. And if I persisted, I should expect more than a word in my shell-like

Or bought a billboard or hijacked Pride with massive banners, say?

Datun · 22/12/2018 07:46

Or bought a billboard or hijacked Pride with massive banners, say?

Are you really this hard of thinking? Despite the entire premise being explained to you?

Bowlofbabelfish · 22/12/2018 07:56

No but the wimms are all sensitive about being called fat so you can probably get some good rises out of people. Were you that way inclined.

Wolf whistling and catcalling is shitty behaviour. I’m not sure how you could criminalise it - again you’re criminalising public speech. Following a woman, and making her fear for her safety is already an offence.

The addition of extra laws may seem like it’s helpful but it’s often not. I’m certainly having to think about my opinion on hate crime legislation

NonExistentFox · 22/12/2018 09:14

Are you really this hard of thinking? Despite the entire premise being explained to you?

Like I said, Datun, you're the brains of this operation.

Obviously changing your name for this should afford you no more protection from a criminal record than any other name change. Deadnaming isn't about that, it's like pronouncing Mr. Wax's name as Mr. Wachs to make it clear you don't consider him British.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 22/12/2018 09:29

DARVO in action.

NonExistentFox · 22/12/2018 09:40

Given the vast majority of trans people aren't criminals, no it isn't.

DARVO happens because most oppressors believe themselves to be the injured party.

sackrifice · 22/12/2018 09:42

Something that resembles a beach ball isn't.

Thing?

So a fat woman is a thing now?

Qcng · 22/12/2018 09:42

To be fair if someone constantly mispronounced someone's surname on purpose despite knowing it's pronunciation I'd think they were a dick.
I wouldn't try to no-platform them or insist they receive a criminal record for it because that would make me a dick.

People should be able to say what is true.

sackrifice · 22/12/2018 09:43

Or bought a billboard or hijacked Pride with massive banners, say?

How can LESBIANS hijack PRIDE when they say that LESBIANS DON'T do DICK?

That should be the very essence of Pride.

Qcng · 22/12/2018 09:46

Bruce Jenner won an Olympic gold medal.

It's very interesting what the results are when you Google Bruce Jenner ...

Datun · 22/12/2018 10:22

it's like pronouncing Mr. Wax's name as Mr. Wachs to make it clear you don't consider him British.

If he wanted to access a UK state pension, despite him being American, then pointing out that he is not British is entirely necessary.

You know this. Your disingenuity is time consuming. For both you and everyone else.

Datun · 22/12/2018 10:23

And yes, of course, likewise lesbians. If lesbians find it crucial to say that they are same-sex attracted and don't do dick, you need to ask yourself why you are saying they shouldn't.

NonExistentFox · 22/12/2018 11:42

Mr Wax is as British as I am and people are calling him Mr. Wachs (IPA: /vaks/) to highlight his German Jewish ancestry.

And yes, of course, likewise lesbians. If lesbians find it crucial to say that they are same-sex attracted and don't do dick, you need to ask yourself why you are saying they shouldn't.

Believe it or not I have asked myself. My answer is that everyone is entitled to exclude or include whatever they like for themselves. There are lesbians who want nothing whatsoever to do with dick. There are lesbians who prefer dick but stick religiously to women out of principle. There are lesbians who believe they have a spiritual dick. There are lesbians who are perfectly happy to sleep with trans men or trans women. There are lesbians who also sleep with AMAB straight men.

I'm a bit hazy on some of these concepts, but I don't feel entitled to impose my own criteria on anyone else. Other people do. When these people start waving banners and handing out misleading leaflets exhorting the rest of us to exclude part of the LGBTQI during a celebration of LGBTQI, it crosses the line for me. And if other lesbians find it crucial to say that it crosses the line, you need to ask yourself why that might be.

Bowlofbabelfish · 22/12/2018 11:49

There are lesbians who prefer dick but stick religiously to women out of principle. There are lesbians who believe they have a spiritual dick. There are lesbians who are perfectly happy to sleep with trans men or trans women. There are lesbians who also sleep with AMAB straight men.

How does that work then? I was under the impression that lesbians were female homosexuals. Thus exclusive same sex attraction? A lesbian doesn’t do dick. Spiritual, corporeal or on any plane of existence

If one likes both sexes one is bisexual. A lesbian is a female attracted to females. A lesbian by definition does not have an attraction to males

I’m all agog at the thought of a spititual dick. what might one of them be?

VickyEadie · 22/12/2018 11:51

If one likes both sexes one is bisexual. A lesbian is a female attracted to females. A lesbian by definition does not have an attraction to males

That would be correct. A lesbian isn't a lesbian if she is attracted to or actually sleeps with possessors of penises (aka men, whatever they choose to call themselves).

And no amount of linguistic sleight of hand by TRAs and their supporters can change that fact.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 22/12/2018 11:59

I'm not sure it should be a criminal offence, granted, but it being fact isn't a sole justification for doing it. That's what I meant

But TRAs aren't just demanding that people don't call Transwomen he. They are demanding that they call them she. They are demanding that people like.

andyoldlabour · 22/12/2018 12:02

@ScottCheggJnr

"However, there are plenty on here who intend to ignore pronouns and address TW as men."

I think you will find, that the majority of people in the World would address a masculine looking TW as a man, because that is simple biological fact. A man can never be a woman, that is a scientific, biological fact, and anyone who denies that probably believes in creationism or flat earth theory, or maybe that the sun revolves around the earth.

VickyEadie · 22/12/2018 12:12

"However, there are plenty on here who intend to ignore pronouns and address TW as men."

I refuse to have my language policed such that I say something I neither mean nor believe. It's as simple as that.

Datun · 22/12/2018 12:53

I'm a bit hazy on some of these concepts, but I don't feel entitled to impose my own criteria on anyone else

Lesbians are same-sex attracted. If they're not same-sex attracted, they're not a lesbian.

It's not difficult. And you don't have to waffle on about your personal criteria. No one gives a toss about how you want to redefine words according to your own criteria.

Mr Wax is as British as I am and people are calling him Mr. Wachs (IPA: /vaks/) to highlight his German Jewish ancestry.

Well I'm not, so it's irrelevant.

Seriously, your arguments are daft.

Mariotta · 22/12/2018 12:57

I’m all agog at the thought of a spititual dick. what might one of them be?

I think it's when your inner jelly baby says the right prayer.