"Gendered" Insults

[lydiamajora]

I put the title in scare quotes due to the fact that the connotations of the word "gender" have changed since I first heard the term, but "gendered insults" are those which rely on reference to sexed anatomy (ie, cunt, twat, bitch, dick, prick, etc).

I am one of those obnoxious people who cares way too much about words. I think they say a lot about us, even when (or hell, especially when) we do not intend them to. At the same time, I do not think the use of specific slurs is in and of itself indicative of underlying bigotry. In reality it seems to be a good indicator of societal - rather than personal - values.

The best way I have figured out to explain my own position is this:

I am an atheist. And yet, in the middle of the night, if I get up to visit the toilet and stub my toe on the corner of the nightstand, I have been known to emphatically swear "Goddammit!"

Not because I, secretly, in my heart of hearts, really do believe in a god, and that if I beseech him appropriately he will smite the offending piece of furniture. But because I have grown up in a culture of people who have religious beliefs and who use "goddammit" as one of the buffet of things you can say when you do something like kick a chair leg at o'dark-thirty in the morning while trying to go have a pee.

So my question is this: how do you feel about these kinds of insults?

I notice that some feminists on this board (and elsewhere) have a negative view on these slurs. Others use them fairly liberally (plenty of women calling people cunts and twats) while still holding feminist views.

Disclaimer: I am American, so my visceral reaction to the word cunt is pretty different from Europeans', though gay men seem to have made it their mission to "reclaim" slurs which were never theirs to begin with (with cunt being first and foremost) and are thereby increasing usage.

Not trying to be goady - I obviously have my own opinions, but I am interested to hear what others believe and why they believe it.

Well, gender is a social construct, and I suppose insults are too, they are tied in with the society they are used in.

We have separated the insult from the original meaning in a lot of cases, but it is important to stop and remember that they often send out a message, subliminal or otherwise. Patriarchy rules and gender stereotypes prevail.

It's interesting looking at insults across cultures too. Often very similar insults, such as son of a bitch in the West and ' your mother is a dog' in the Arab speaking world ( umik kelb), so still insulting women. I guess it all stems from the patriarchy.

I just find it interesting that some words are considered separate from their original meaning while others are not (and not casting aspersions, I recognise this delineation as well). Many of the people I know who call people pussies to mean coward would not say something like "He Jewed me out of my Christmas bonus", or even "That's retarded."

I suppose that is why I refrain from using these kinds of insults - just because I don't believe their use is indicative of a personal failing doesn't mean I want to contribute to an environment where people are demeaned by being compared to female genitals.

For the sake of ideological consistency, I avoid using male-sexed slurs as well, even though I consider the prick vs cunt divide to be similar to the nigger vs cracker one. Which is to say, they are both slurs, but one has a hell of a lot more social power behind it than the other.

I’ve always thought it interesting (in the sense that it gives you a real sense of how unspeakable women’s bodily functions are perceived) that insults to do with women are stronger than insults to do with men so ‘dick’ and ‘knob’ are fairly mild compared to ‘twat’ and ‘cunt’, however, I personally don’t associate them with being gender specific when using them and am as likely to call a man a twat as I am a woman a dick. It’s more to do with the strength of the swear word and the perceived insult. I have been called names too and obviously while I am insulted at the premise of being sworn at, I’ve never taken exception to the particular word used. I don’t for example associate the word ‘cunt’ with anything misogynistic and just think it’s a particularly strong word so would use it myself in relation to men or women, and while I’d be insulted, I wouldn’t read anything misogynistic into it if I was called it myself. I do tend to reserve it for times when I really want to use a strong insult and weirdly don’t actually like its use in the way it was originally intended i.e. as an anatomical term.

I must say that I have never heard a woman being called a dick/prick (which is not to say it doesn't happen), while calling men various words for female genitals does seem to be the go-to if your intent is to degrade them.

I object very strongly to the use of cunt as an insult/swear word. I think it carries too much misogynist history, and in my opinion it is profoundly unfeminist to use it. (I recognise that this is a minority opinion!) Dick and prick are not equivalents-dick in particular has always been milder. Semi affectionate even. I agree they are very rarely used to women. "That's a dick move" is- and my adult daughter will say "Don't be a dick, mate" to men and women friends. But I have never heard "You're a dick" or "You're a prick" used to a woman. Could be my age or where I live?

Bertrand - I object strongly as well, but I know I am the Mayor of Nofunnington

I am also in my late twenties, if that helps to provide context

I'm much older than you, Lydia, and remember a time when cunt was such a vicious, misogynist slur-so deeply rooted in the hatred/fear of women that for me hearing women use it so casually feels like capitulation to the patriarchy. But I have had my arse handed to me several times on here for expressing that opinion that I have to accept that I'm wrong. I don't, actually. I still think I'm right

I do know women who don’t like “the ‘c’ word” as they insist on calling it but like I say, I’ve never heard it being used as a specifically misogynistic insult so just am not squeamish about it at all. I’m in my early 40s and have been used it since being in my 20s. I’ve also heard (and used) made up derivatives such as ‘cuntery’ and ‘cuntish’ to describe certain behaviour. I think when I was younger, it was less common to hear dick or knobhead directed at women, but I think it’s normal now.
Also, to be clear, I don’t make a habit out of being foul mouthed as I have two small children. I actually don’t swear that much as they’re usually within earshot or I’m in contexts where it’s not appropriate (such as school events), but given the opportunity, I am happy to use the full range of available words in the English language. 😉

I'm not squeamish and I don't use the expression "the c word".

Same; I'm not a child, I will use the actual word when discussing it.

I find the argument that insults like cunt/twat are now divorced from their sexed origins enough to not be so offensive only comes up in one or two other examples. The one I can think of off the top of my head is from when I was in school and calling everything "gay" was the done thing for edgy teens. Of course, when questioned, anyone would tell you that calling something gay just means stupid; it isn't homophobic at all, you weirdo.

I don't hear it much amongst adults anymore, but "cunt" and "twat" are experiencing something of a renaissance in the states.

It's not just insults. Other adjectives too. Have you ever heard a man described as bubbly? Also difficult and bossy are words that are supposed to tell us that we are breaking gender norms and should stop.

I quite like the word cunt for strength of feeling but it says something about society that our worst insult means female genitalia.

*I mean, I don't hear adults call things gay almost ever, and certainly they don't refer to themselves and others using racial slurs as my peers in school did. Gendered slurs seem to be the exception.

Sorry, I wasn’t directing my comment at you - I had people my age that I know in mind when I said that - and I would never assume that other people should have the same opinions as me anyway.

My mum is in her 60s and would never use it but then she doesn’t tend to use the word fuck either unless she’s quoting someone else, and then she does that thing (that I always associate with Les Dawson) where she mouths it.

"Have you ever heard a man described as bubbly?"
Another time I got completely pilloried on here was when I objected to a police officer who was killed in the line of duty being referred to by her superior officer as a "bubbly girl".........

I hate the c word, I don’t even know why I just really hate - I’ve heard it said to men and woman though so i don’t see it as mysogonistic.
I only ever hear woman called bitches but me and my friends say it in general context ‘ah you bitch you finished the wine’ sort of thing.
All the others I see as interchangeable between sexes.
None of the words you’ve mentioned would I personally find as especicially insulting as they refer to gender. What I do hate is ‘man up’ or ‘grow some balls’ said to women or even men.

I swear a lot (try to reign it in at work) but I won't use gendered insults, because to me they are un-feminist. It's not just the word, but the history of it's use and the way it's still used. Cunt is the worst because when I have heard it it's only been used in extreme anger and with the intention of insulting and demeaning the woman (and it's always a woman) it's aimed at. I don't think twat is used in the same way now (not that I will use it). It's more used like 'dick'. The other one I really hate is 'bitch'. Only ever heard about a woman (or at a stretch a gay man).

Do you think there are reasons that people might not want to use the word "cunt" which aren't prudish or "pearl clutching"? Is there anything political about it for you?

And the word bossy, when are little boys called bossy? ‘Oh he’s a born leader’ ‘he’s very strong willed’ but no, my daughter was just ‘bossy’

I understand where you are coming from OP. I'm atheist but because I grew up in a catholic household where my parents went to mass every week until they were too ill to do so, I and my brother were involved in a church youth group for years and years and I had faith for the first 40 years or so I still use terms like "thank God" without even realising it.

On the cunt/dick thing I call 2 (horrible spoilt self-centered ) people I work with prick or dick but would rarely say cunt. I obviously have been influenced to think dick or prick is ok but cunt is reserved for the worst behaviour. What does that say about me and/society?

Noteven my mother used to do the Les Dawson thing

Earlywalker Would you be able/willing to explain what your line is for some insult being misogynistic? To me, the fact that our (arguably) worst insults are based on comparing someone to females/female parts is pretty indicative of cultural (though, again, not necessarily personal) misogyny. Men get called pricks/dickheads, but those are not used in the same venomous, degrading way that cunt is.

I find it deeply offensive to have the fundamentally female external organ, the warm giver and receiver of pleasure, the amazing conduit of new life, used as an insulting term for nastiness.

The male equivalents OTOH do not seem as offensive because they relate to selfish or thoughtless behaviour. Reducing a person to their penis seems a very good analogy for them being lead by their own desires.

I think the only gendered swear word that I would only associate with only women is bitch, but have always felt the word bastard is a fairly equal strength male alternative so have never really been offended by its use.
In all honesty, from a historical view, I think it’s interesting and very telling of our society that female genitalia is considered so much worse than male but the words themselves just don’t offend me in that way as I don’t think I’ve heard them in that context. If I’m honest I’ve heard men called twat and cunt more often than women and until recently, didn’t realise that people’s objections to it were because of its perception of being misogynistic, just that it is one of the strongest words you can use. Again that clearly says something deeper about our society and how we view female genitalia as being the worst thing ever, but I’ve never really witnessed that much thought going into insults when they’re being thrown around, so I tend to take them at face value. So many words have problematic origins that are routed in sexism. Just the fact that as a species we are MANkind or huMAN, and half the population is feMALE, tells you all you need to know, but you can’t remove every gendered word from the dictionary. A lot of people don’t like swearing generally so it’s not something I would do in polite company around people that I don’t know that well anyway.
I don’t think I’ve ever used the word gay as an insult, although most people I know wouldn’t think twice. That’s always sounded a bit wrong to me. However, if I’m honest, other adjectives used in a gendered way annoy me more, particularly ones used around children such as bubbly, bossy, pretty v boisterous, assertive, handsome. The ones used for girls are either used in a slightly negative way or emphasise a more frivolous aspect of their character. It’s just like marketing. Gendered marketing towards women and men is patronising but we’re all grown ups and can make our own decisions, however, when it’s directed at children it can completely shape their world view and potentially could be much more damaging.

I don't generally use gendered (or religious) insults.

It doesn't leave me with many swear words to choose from TBH, particularly when I'm driving 😄😠.