Sally Hines accuses Professor Rosa Freedman of being mean on Twitter

[OrchidInTheSun]

Hines says she's copied in her university and the ESRC into tweets about her. She's very cross. So cross that she can't spell Rosa's name properly - it's Freedman, not Freeman.

Here's her tirade
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1066446520575250435.html

I agree that the REF is a blunt an inadequate instrument.

However the contention was that SH hadn't published refable set of literature.

SH has just confirmed on Twitter that she has.

RF is now denying her tweet was about SH at all.

Screenshots spanna?

Yeah, I mean Sally is an idiot and cannot back up her points, but that tweet isn’t the best from an academic. I assumed it was aimed at Sally too. I can’t think who else it would be targeting. Sally has published articles and presumably those would be eligible for inclusion in the REF. The REF cycle is also not over and she is involved in two major funded projects, so it’s not unreasonable to assume that she will have some outputs for 2021. Sally also said on twitter that she is leading on a case study.
To be fair, Sally has given as good as she has got by her comments about being pathetic and a nasty piece of work, but I am a bit disappointed that neither of them comes across very well here. Also, the REF causes so much stress for academics that publicly calling out someone’s lack of publications looks really really poor, even if the person being called out is a dick.

These are the screenshots

The problem I have with the current strain of gender research is that it is a rehashing of tired old pomo queer stuff. I read a peice recently asking where the hell had the gender studies about InGOs and development work gone, all disappeared in favour of queer theory sucking up all the cash. I will see if I can find the paper again.

Sorry father buzz. To be clear the VC needs to sit her down and ask her why the hell she is spouting nonsense on Twitter and national radio about sex being on a spectrum etc. Her ‘research’ won’t be worth anything. Unless she is working in the ‘dept of beliefs’.
If sex has suddenly become a spectrum then she will need to back this up. I am sure there will be lots of scientists there trying to ignore her.

So professional!

FWIW I agree with Professor Hines that 'this is why the debate is toxic' although locate the cause and 'proof' differently.

Rosa didn't mention Sally by name or @ her did she?

Who else would she have been referring to? People on this thread obviously thought she was talking about Sally too.

I can understand her frustration because Sally seems highly unpleasant, but as it’s untrue that Sally has published nothing REFable it just looks a bit bad.

BowlofBabelfish - somebody attempting to support the sex is a spectrum notion for Prof. Hines.

Aside from the fact that it might be useful to have a comment on this, I thought it might be reassuring should Baby ramekin/petri dish develop the 14 week sleep regression and there are times when you doubt your own brain power and grasp on reality.

twitter.com/HughEaston/status/1066499976216350722

I can understand her frustration because Sally seems highly unpleasant, but as it’s untrue that Sally has published nothing REFable it just looks a bit bad.

This is fascinating.

What I don't get is the shouting about something not being in "REF" BECAUSE IT'S NOT WRITTEN YET. Does that mean something's just being researched? What if it eventually gets written and is shit?

I find the whole thing a bit bonkers. Why would you start shouting about a fellow academic with no proof of the accusations? Especially a law professor. People won't believe what you say without evidence.
Oh you say sex is a spectrum. There's no evidence for that either.

I thought the spelling mistake slightly awkward too. It's just I guess I expect higher standards of accuracy from a professor. I mean I'm rubbish but if I was slagging someone off I'd deffo check their name first. #topacademictip

Hugh Easton has misunderstood (or misrepresented) how ambiguous genitalia work.

Having ambiguous genitalia doesnt mean you're literally partway towards the other sex

I mean I have had two hours sleep most nights and even my addled brain can get that.

There are adults of the type that produce sperm and adults of the type that produce eggs. If sex was a spectrum you’d see other gametes. Show me the gametes, Hugh!

I don’t think he understands biology very well...

The Quiguly# paper which is the source of the illustration in the Easton tweet referenced above: Androgen Receptor Defects: Historical, Clinical, and Molecular Perspectives

The illustration is on pg 282 and the legend is important because it states: Schematic represenation of grading scheme for clinical classification of AIS which is not in line (to me) with how Easton is representing it.

This pdf should work for anyone interested:

www.researchgate.net/profile/Elizabeth_Wilson25/publication/15527007_Androgen_Receptor_Defects_Historical_Clinical_and_Molecular_Perspectives/links/55b79a8a08aec0e5f4382bf5.pdf

If not, the abstract is here:

academic.oup.com/edrv/article-abstract/16/3/271/2548496

#For various reasons, the tweet has this as Quiguly but the paper has the name of Quigley . I can not begin to explain where the alternate legend is from and can only think it's taken from a secondary rather than primary source.

Sally Hines is a nasty piece of work.

She does seem very obnoxious based on that exchange.

Hughs looks dodgy. Pet conspiracy theories

Fucking hell. Oh screw it, I’d give her both barrels, Rosa. Can’t believe that comment.

There is an interesting conversation to be had about how to maintain academic standards.

I live in Mexico and they use a version of REF and it has serious shortcomings, but there are also too many professors who acheived their position by dubious means and now everyone has to put up with them because they have tenure.

I find Sally Hines maddeningly stupid and dishonest and really would like to see her out of a job.

jesus. imagine not being able to process that idea that pregnancy looms large in every woman's life.

i worry about Sally's brain.

Pregnancy - avoidance of it, not being able to achieve it, losing the foetus and not being able to stop it, bearing the fruits of it, being responsible every single day and night for your children

That is before you get onto the things which happen because you have female reproductive organs - whether or not you have children.

That is before the things which happen because of how society sees the people with female reproductive organs.

There are centuries of examples to draw on. It’s not rocket science.

Thanks all for these comments, which I have read and taken on board. To be fair, I didn’t name anyone in my tweet, and I also know what would be REF-able in the social sciences and humanities. People’s publications are available via their institutional repositories and staff profile pages. As to the rant about me last night, no evidence was provided and as a junior Professor (not even 8yrs out of my PhD) it was somewhat strange to find a senior Professor using her Saturday night publicly to attack me online for a range of unevidenced )and largely spurious) allegations. That being said, she has had a tough week and I very much hope that she feels better this week. These debates have become toxic, and damaging for very many people, which is a great shame as most of us (I hope) simply want to uphold the human rights of everyone concerned.

arranfan's link above and why (allegedly)

"Sex as a spectrum isn't a belief, it's the biological reality of how things are, as the attached chart shows! This is because whether you develop as male or female depends on whether there are high or low levels of androgenic hormone present during the time your prenatal"

Best wishes for Woman's Hour tomorrow, RosaFreedman1983 - and I think this comment is wholly appropriate:

That being said, she has had a tough week and I very much hope that she feels better this week

I wish Prof. Hines had taken a pause to reflect on the feedback on her performance. We all have times when we fail to communicate effectively to the intended audience and it can be so valuable to put ego aside and learn why that happened.